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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/10/2001 5:23 AM (GMT -6) |   | For those interested...I was just informed by IVP that the release date on Doc's book is Oct. 15 and will cost 24.99(unless you work at a bookstore and get a discount, like me)...
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/13/2001 2:36 PM (GMT -6) | | They told me September15. Aghhh publishers!!!
The Four Views on Divine Foreknowledge book will be out about the same time. For people interested in the foreknowledge issue, this book lays out the major options nicely.
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/13/2001 5:19 PM (GMT -6) | | I read and enjoyed your "Letters" book while I was out West, Doc!
PotOnWheel
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/13/2001 7:09 PM (GMT -6) | | Oh, for those of you interested, Kregal is suppose to be publishing a book by Geisler and House called "The Battle For God: answering Neo-Theism." I'm looking forward to that...
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/14/2001 1:03 AM (GMT -6) | | PotonWheel, glad you enjoyed "Letters." So you didn't think it was the most worthless, heretical book ever written, as one reviewer on Amazon.com maintained?
Writerdad: The Battle for God.... well, at least we know what's at stake in this fight  By the way, for those who don't know, "Neo-Theism" is Geisler's word for everything from Process theology to Open Theology to "finite goddism" (e.g. personalism). Judging from his last book In Man's Own Image, I'm not sure he is well versed on the differences between these group. Just FYI and entertainment, since it was VERY public, Geisler and somebody else held two sessions on the topic: Is Open Theism a Cult?
Delightful.
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/14/2001 2:52 AM (GMT -6) | | No to the below.
quote:
PotonWheel, glad you enjoyed "Letters." So you didn't think it was the most worthless, heretical book ever written, as one reviewer on Amazon.com maintained?
I DID enjoy watching those things that your dad didn't "buy" that (at least in the edit) you ended up not addressing.
For fun, he didn't buy it when you said (p.20-21) that only people and not institutions can be Christian. I think you BOTH have arguable positions. The split between "now/not yet" is one, the "historical/eschatological" can I think be conceived independently of the first set, especially in ecclesiology (I liked Zizioulas' chapters on a "Pneumatologically conditioned Christology") where the historical is matched with the Christological and eschatological with Pneumatological. That leads to thinking about "universal" verses Local church--the challenge given those well-worn categorties is to not conceive of them as disjuct sets. "Inner/outer" authority is another. You were BOTH right; and the book didn't need to develop it further. But with how liberation theology gets itself "trapped in history" it is a worth topic. I will be interested to see what Modes and Pia do with their respective topics.
Thanks for having this site, Greg.
Lets hear it for the class of '79!
PotOnWheel
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/14/2001 3:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Oh, one thing from "Letters" -- When on page 41 you had said "The greater the possibility of love the greater the possibility of eveil." it had struck me as a bit outlandish. I began thinking of ways in which the statement would not be true: like with the idea of theosis, becoming less slaves to sin and more free to righteousness. But the normalcy of that stark declaration of yours is evident to me when I look at a snip from what I left for you in the threadlet "FREEDOM AND HELL". Your statement is far less frightening! 
quote:
"The Kingdom of God has come among you," means that hell has also come among us. Marcel Johandeau puts it in his own way, "On my own, I am able to set up before God an empire in which he can to nothing, and this is hell...if we do not understand hell it is because we do not know our own hearts..." It is the hell of all those who despair and who explore the depths of Satan and cast towards heaven their empty blasphemies.
(I rather doubt that string will collect additional posts--too scary or heavy, or unussual to read.)
PotOnWheel
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/14/2001 3:56 AM (GMT -6) | | Bound Only Once: The Failure of Open Theism, ed. Douglas Wilson (Canon Press, 2001). (Contributors include: John MacArthur, Jr., R.C. Sproul, Jr., Peter Leithart, John Frame, Phillip Johnson, Thomas Ascol, Steve Schlissel, Ben Merkle, Douglas Jones, Joost Nixon)
Book Description: The problems with Open theism lie deeper than most critiques suggest. This book interacts not only with the truth claims of Open theism but also its distorted aesthetic and ethical assumptions that do so much work in their program.
Open theists like to picture the God of classical Christian theism as a distant, despotic, micromanaging sovereign. The god of Open theism, on the other hand, is ready to enter into new experiences and to become deeply involved in helping us cope as we, with him, face things we simply did not know would happen. They insist that God has knowledge, but not all knowledge, certainly not knowledge of the future acts of free beings. Such Open theistic inferences reveal a deep-seated devotion to Enlightenment categories and narrow unpoetic imaginations.
Ideas have destinations, and one of the consequences of our trying to read the Scriptures without any poetry in our souls will be the eventual destruction of any possibility of ministering to souls. Just imagine the hymn writer trying to lift up the downcast—“I know not what the future holds, but I know Who also doesn’t know much about it either.”
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8
Edited by - pia†desideria on 08/14/2001 08:58:01 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 8/14/2001 6:22 AM (GMT -6) | | Now, I wonder how many people here will HONESTLY try to give "Bound Only Once: The Failure of Open Theism" a fair reading. Will I see the same vitrolic lambasting I saw against Bruce Ware's book a long time ago? Hmmm... two wrongs don't make rights, right?
Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love. | | Back to Top | | |
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writerdad
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/14/2001 1:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Mephi: I do agree you are right...that we on THIS side tend to simply dismiss the other side's critique of what we believe. However, while I did think that Ware's book was weak (for reasons I posted), I also thought he made some valid points. But I find the problem is one that comes up more from reformed believers then, say, non-reformed believers, such as Geisler. While Ware's book was much better than Geisler's, Geisler was much more charitable in my view. The problem comes in because reformed believers have a tendency to wear on their sleeve how right they are and not adknowledge that each position has it weaknesses. But I do agree with you...we all tend to dismiss each other...
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/14/2001 7:36 PM (GMT -6) | | I say bring the guys who wrote that book before the OV council, try 'em for heresy and burn 'em at the stake.
Seriously, maybe the difference between us and them is...we've all been where they are, believed what they believe, and even defended it just like they're doing. Some of us even defended it using the same arguments they're using. So forgive us for anticipating what they're gonna say!
Still, they'll get a much fairer reading because of this than the OV gets from them (if Pia summary of the book means anything).
Tom
“Christianity is all for practice, and so much time as is spent in quarrels about it is a diminution to its interest. We inquire so much what it is that we have but little time left to be Christians.” Jeremy Taylor
Edited by - TGB on 08/15/2001 12:38:16 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/15/2001 6:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Mephi and Tom: I think there has been a misunderstanding because I went to the website of the publisher of "Bound Only Once (canonpress.org) and what Pia wrote is actually THEIR summary of the book. So if it sounds bad, well, its the publisher's fault.
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/15/2001 7:00 AM (GMT -6) | | I have to say there is something very unsettling to me about this whole debate, particularly when a question like "is open theism a cult?"
How can one be a cult when one affirms the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the Trinity, salvation through Christ's death alone and other cardinal beliefs of the Christian church.
Perhaps I am naive. But it seems that the problem other believers have is they say we limit God. But don't we all limit God in some way, if not in the words we affirm, then in how we live our lives? The recent Morey posting and dialogue with him made me realize more than ever that the extention of grace by God to us all includes grace to realize how little I know and how much of what I do know is spectulative. I only hope that grace and love will be at the forefront of the debate. That way, regardless of the issues the world will know we are Christians by our love. John 17:3 Harold
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/15/2001 7:08 AM (GMT -6) | | Harold, yes the Bound Only Once book description is the publisher’s, not my own—I haven’t read it, although if it will help me overcome my deep-seated devotion to Enlightenment categories and broaden my narrow, unpoetic imagination, maybe I should check it out . Thanks, pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/16/2001 6:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Pia: I am going to check the book out, along with their two paraodies of The Left Behind Series and The Prayer of Jabaz. I need a good laugh.
I did want to thank you for your posts in the Feminist theology section. I know NOTHING in that area, and it has given me much food for thought. God fears nothing in the expansion of our minds...
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chance
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157
| Posted 8/19/2001 9:48 PM (GMT -6) | | Speaking of Geisler, who is going to listen to him present his paper at the ETS conference next November? The title of it is Does Open Theism Reduce to Process Theology?. He'll be giving it during parralel session 2. I have yet to choose between hearing that paper or Mayhue's paper during that session.
For the full schedule of the ETS conference click here
chance
A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth | | Back to Top | | |
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/20/2001 7:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Can't be there, but do they offer tapes on the sessions? I would be interested in Sander's and Ware's as well...
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/30/2001 7:05 PM (GMT -6) | | Can someone e-mail me and suggest how to get a copy of Greg's book about seeing Jesus?
Modes? Pia?
PotOnWheel
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