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If it's ok with everyone I will read "They Recongnized Him and He Became Invisble to Them" also and keep an eye on the board for the discussion.

Gregw you are fortunate to get an early release of "Satan and the problem of Evil". Are you going to use it for your class?

Thanks,
Tom.

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25
And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
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From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
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God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
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`For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, `We are his offspring.'
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"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill.
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In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

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When Ronald Nash asks why evangelize if people can be saved without hearing about Jesus, Sanders replies that we always assume that evangelism is only about salvation itself when it is also about the quality of that salvation.

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Another good book in the area is, "What About Those Who Haven't Heard?," edited by John Sanders, which gives the three main views. Sanders makes a point in the book that I think is well taken.
Sanders takes Pinnock's view. When Ronald Nash asks why evangelize if people can be saved without hearing about Jesus, Sanders replies that we always assume that evangelism is only about salvation itself when it is also about the quality of that salvation. In other words (and I am not doing justice To Sander's words), Christ didn't come simply to save us, but to redeem the lives we live and to bring us into fellowship with him. That is also part of the salvation message and one of the prime reasons we preach the gospel.

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If you were in Sanders classroom he would give the following explanation and illustration.

It used to be that the church had multiple reasons for evangelizing the lost and not just salvation. The salvation of the lost was just one of the pillars that supported the church's mission to evangelize the world.

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The way Nash and others see it there is only one reason to evangelize and that is to save the lost. This is what Nash's view looks like.

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Knock out Nash's one pillar and you lose the only reason for the church to evangelize the lost making evangelization a waste of time.

chance

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Good point. Pinnock talks about there being more than one reason to evangelize as well. To save the lost is also based on the whole idea of saving one from eternal torment which Pinnock not only disagrees with (he's an annihilationist) but it hardly seems motivating as to sustain a relational category of faith.

By the way guys, when I went and seen Pinnock I bought two signed copies off of him (one for a friend). I finished the books and then wrote Clark what my thoughts were on the book. Basically, it's rehash of the "Openness" book. He also told me that he did see "MMM as a re-presentation to a new set of readers seven years later."

There were some points that he brings up that have been thoroughly discussed on this website such as determinism. Even though Mephi may call attention to all the differences between, "human agency theory," "fatalism," and "determinism," **for all practical purposes** according to Pinnock, they all comes out in the same wash. By the way, to Mephi, I do want to say that I did bring you to Pinnock attention, but from what I gather, don't expect to get into any discussions with him. I think he wants to leave that up to Sanders, Boyd, and Hasker, etc. Besides, I don't think he does much debating these days being older and all, he just settles for teaching. I think he leaves it up to younger punks like Boyd to do that job.

Brandon
P.S. Can anyone address my points on McDermott?