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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 12/18/2003 8:17 AM (GMT -6) |   | I've given you feedback about your violation of copyright laws by continually reposting news stories from news web sites.
That's step one.
Step two, if needed, will be to contact the moderator.
Step three, if needed, will be to contact the news sites you two are continually ripping off.
This is a discussion website, not a news repost sink. It only mildly annoyed me until now. War, peace, abortion, Calvin, chocolate versus vanilla, it doesn't matter the issue. What matters is the mindless, endless, continual reposting of copyrighted material as if that were a discussion. 
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade | | Back to Top | | |
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/18/2003 9:21 AM (GMT -6) | | Greetings, Laika:
F.Y.I.:
Newspaper and/or journal articles; and/or 'excerpts' of documents (pertaining to innumerable issues and/or topics) are posted on this site very, very frequently -- by countless people.
You never once objected when the articles were pro-war.
Why do you object now??
POINT:
Of the countless articles and/or documents that have been posted on this site by all manner of good-intentioned people -- TODAY you decide to (selectively!) come against only those that are not in support of the war in Iraq.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
Peace and blessings,
<><
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/18/2003 9:38 AM (GMT -6) | |
So, don't you think it's possible that you're over-reacting a bit?
It "feels" like you want to censor those who disagree with you on the war in Iraq.
Peace & blessings,
<><
On the "Saddam IS CAUGHT" thread, Laika wrote:
quote:
You're right, I've never objected to entire articles being posted continually, day after day until now. Whether they were pro-war, anti-war, pro-calvin, anti-calvin, pro-vanilla, pro-chocolate, whatever. And you're not the main offender, DLW is. And I've probably done it myself once or twice. But the cup just ran over.
SEE:
http://gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2924 | | Back to Top | | |
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Alan Rhoda
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 680
| Posted 12/18/2003 11:36 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Mayflower
Of the countless articles and/or documents that have been posted on this site by all manner of good-intentioned people -- TODAY you decide to (selectively!) come against only those that are not in support of the war in Iraq. ... The truly disturbing thing is that you have chosen to judge ONLY those who do not share your own views of the war in Iraq. Why is that??
With all due respect, Mayflower, your charge that Laika has singled out anti-Iraq war persons for criticism on the point of copyright infringement precisely because they are against the war is both uncharitable and irrelevant to the main point, which is that copyright laws should be repected with regards to the reposting of material. Laika apparently thinks that you and DLW are the main offenders in this regard. Whether that is so or not, the issue is what kinds of reposting are permissible within the context of copyright laws and which kinds are not. The safest approach, as Tigress points out, is just to post a link, but in some cases more may be permissible. It depends on the details of the copyright restrictions pertinent to the source being cited. In short, instead of making ad hominem retorts against Laika, you, myself, and all of us here should pay attention to whatever copyright restrictions pertain to the source and observe them.
Thanks,
Alan | | Back to Top | | |
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/18/2003 3:38 PM (GMT -6) | |
Greetings, Laika:
What, exactly, is your purpose in all this?
Do you realize that nearly everyone here (i.e., yes, including you) has,
at one time or another...
"re-posted" assorted writings, conference papers, newspaper articles, internet photographs, cartoons, "forwarded" material that (in retrospect), probably shouldn't have been forwarded; magazine articles, poetry, artwork or drawings; or, an antimated signature line; journal articles, excerpts from books, etc., etc., etc., on the Christus Victor Ministries discussion board -- that might possibly infringe upon a copyright law??
I'm not defending the tendency for "us" to post such material on discussion boards; nor am I claiming to be without fault.
What I am saying is:
NO ONE here has set out to cause harm; and,
NO ONE here is comfortable with a fellow member of the discussion board assuming the role of "copyright" police.
Chill, Brother.
You're beginning to make everyone a little frightened.
NO ONE will feel comfortable posting -- for fear that you may start searching the archives for their "sinful" posts.
Why are you casting stones?
Are you certain that you and you alone -- are without sin??
Truly.
Let it go.
Peace & blessings,
<><
Mayflower wrote:
quote:
So, don't you think it's possible that you're over-reacting a bit?
It "feels" like you want to censor those who disagree with you on the war in Iraq.
Peace & blessings,
<><
Laika wrote:
quote:
I've given you feedback about your violation of copyright laws by continually reposting news stories from news web sites.
That's step one.
Step two, if needed, will be to contact the moderator.
Step three, if needed, will be to contact the news sites you two are continually ripping off.
This is a discussion website, not a news repost sink. It only mildly annoyed me until now. War, peace, abortion, Calvin, chocolate versus vanilla, it doesn't matter the issue. What matters is the mindless, endless, continual reposting of copyrighted material as if that were a discussion.
Laika also wrote: quote:
From the Pioneer Planet website:
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/contact_us/terms_of_use/
Terms of Use
We welcome you to our site. We ask that you review these Terms of Use, which are intended to constitute a binding license agreement that conditions your use of this site ("Agreement"). We have tried to avoid unnecessary legal verbiage. Our goal is to protect our rights in order to provide you with access to the free content available at this site. If you do not wish to be bound by this Agreement after you have read it, please leave the site. If you remain on this site, or return thereafter, you agree to be bound by this Agreement.
1. Responsible conduct. You agree to act responsibly at this site and to treat other visitors with respect.
2. Limited License/ Copyright and Intellectual Property Law Restrictions. Except for public domain material, the content on this site is protected by intellectual property laws, including U.S. copyright laws. You are hereby granted a non-exclusive license to use the material at this site ("Content") while connected to this site (including, where available, to email individual stories to friends directly from this site). You are also granted a limited license to print one copy of any Content posted at the site, but only for your personal use. Except as expressly provided above, all rights are reserved. Among other things, except to the extent required for the limited purpose of reviewing material on our site, electronic reproduction, adaptation, distribution, performance or display is prohibited. Changes to or deletion of author attribution or copyright notices are prohibited. Commercial use of any of the Content is strictly prohibited. Use of any of our trademarks as metatags on other web sites also is strictly prohibited. You may not display this website in frames (or any of the Content via in-line links) without our express written permission, which may be requested by contacting us through our feedback form. You may, however, establish ordinary links to our site without our written permission.
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 12/18/2003 4:08 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Mayflower
What, exactly, is your purpose in all this?
Prevent clutter so people can see ongoing discussion.
Prevent continual copyright infringement.
Encourage others to bring their own thoughts.
quote:
Do you realize that nearly everyone here (i.e., yes, including you) has,
at one time or another...
"re-posted" assorted writings, conference papers, newspaper articles, internet photographs, cartoons, "forwarded" material that (in retrospect), probably shouldn't have been forwarded; magazine articles, poetry, artwork or drawings; or, an antimated signature line; journal articles, excerpts from books, etc., etc., etc., on the Christus Victor Ministries discussion board -- that might possibly infringe upon a copyright law??
Occaisional, not continual. People use quotes to support arguments they are making. You're just a dumper of copyrighted material.
quote:
NO ONE here is comfortable with a fellow member of the discussion board assuming the role of "copyright" police.
Read some fellow posters' comments above.
This is a discussion board. You interrupted the flow of discussion on your own thread with several LENGTHY, ripped off posts. I'm getting tired of it and I believe others are as well.
We'll let the moderator decide if CVM wants to accept liability for you continually scraping copyrighted material off other sites.
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade | | Back to Top | | |
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ataraxia
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 67
| Posted 12/18/2003 8:04 PM (GMT -6) | | Let me help you a bit Mayflower-
Laika already posted this, but we need to be reminded. Here is a portion from the Twin Cities’ Pioneer Planet's (one of your sources) "Terms of Use" found at: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/contact_us/terms_of_use/
quote:
Except for public domain material, the content on this site is protected by intellectual property laws, including U.S. copyright laws. You are hereby granted a non-exclusive license to use the material at this site ("Content") while connected to this site (including, where available, to email individual stories to friends directly from this site). You are also granted a limited license to print one copy of any Content posted at the site, but only for your personal use. Except as expressly provided above, all rights are reserved. Among other things, except to the extent required for the limited purpose of reviewing material on our site, electronic reproduction, adaptation, distribution, performance or display is prohibited.
Now, I’m not even sure if the manner in which I’ve just quoted from this site even with the link is legal! I think it is. Quoting a few sentences is OK, but to reproduce an entire article even with the URL is clearly illegal. What this news agency does allow you to do is email their article to a friend FROM THEIR WEBSITE. This way the entire page as is goes to your friend. That’s legal. But reproducing an article here on our site is clearly not legal. I imagine the same thing applies to other websites as well. I don’t have time to check them all. So let’s be on the safe side and give up the cut-and-paste reproduction of material from other sites.
Furthermore, even if the wholesale reproduction of such material was perfectly legal, I’d still disallow it. Summarize the article in your own words and post the link for those who want to read for themselves. That’s what discussion sites are for.
I don't want to comment much, but let me give an example of the sort of linking that appears to me to be perfectly fine. Blood Washed Heretic posted this:
quote:
I have extended the invitation for Doc to join us here, but he's busy with end-of-semester and holiday things, so I haven't heard back from him. In the meantime, he has posted his article "How Libertarianism Entails Open Theism", which he read for the Society of Christian Philosophers, on his website, so I'll go ahead and give anyone who hasn't read it yet a link to follow:
http://www.lccs.edu/~jsennett/libertarianism%20and%20open%20theism.htm
Enjoy.
You can give the title of the article and even a summary in your own words. Then provide us the link. Interested members can go to that site and download it legally for themselves.
There are many examples of the sort of thing I’ll be removing beginning midnight, Friday the 19th of December. The clearst example is the cut-and-paste trading of articles DLW and Mayflower engaged in on the "Implications of Hussein's Capture" thread. Let me point out another example that's not so clear: http://www.christusvictorministries.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2938
Here DLW (sorry  ) reproduces an article on charities with 20 links. I’d remove this primarily because of the quoted material and not necessarily because of the extended links, though that can be abused as well. If DLW were discussing charities or the discipline of giving and as part of the discussion posted a few links to charitable societies, I think that would be fine. But as it is the post is more like a billboard inserted into our discussion site. Let’s get away from that.
Always,
ataraxia | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/18/2003 11:59 PM (GMT -6) | | | I agree with Tigress. I wish people would just link. That way I don't have a bunch of stuff to scroll through again and again, if I want to read the responses. | | Back to Top | | |
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/19/2003 12:50 AM (GMT -6) | |
Greetings, Ataraxia:
I am pleased to meet you.
Thank you for the much-needed "balance" that you have added to this (increasingly grim) discussion thread.
I agree with your guidance; as, I hope, will Laika.
As he stated in one or two of his posts; he, (like most other board members), has posted "photographs" and/or other internet materials -- which would likely infringe upon copyright laws.
It's clear that none of us are as savvy as we need to be regarding what is proper (and, legal) to post on message boards, and what isn't.
In regard to Laika's 3-step approach to this issue, I would suggest that three "alternative" steps could and should have taken that would have resulted in a more positive, and productive outcome,
for all involved:
1) Laika needs to recall, with humility -- that he is a participant of this discussion board -- as are the rest of the members. And, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
"Come, let us reason together" should dictate our attitude toward conflict resolution.
Forgive the analogy, but his "policing" felt like 'a preemptive strike'. (It was uncalled for, and totally unexpected).
IF Laika had genuine concerns, he should have posted a (non-threatening) "general" notice, ADDRESSED TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE DISCUSSION BOARD -- alerting everyone that we, as an internet discussion group, need to be cognizant of any and all potential copyright issues when posting to public message boards.
POINT: As a large portion of us post (internet accessed) photographs and other material on this board, it's seems clear that the majority of us may simply be oblivious to the fact that a photograph, drawing, and/or news article, posted on a message board (i.e., as opposed to being "sold") could indeed constitute a copyright problem.
Outlining and clarifying such basic information,
in a "GENERAL" post entitled "COPYRIGHT INFORMATION FOR ALL BOARD MEMBERS," would have been helpful, and non-confrontational.
NOTE: Singling individuals out should be avoided, for the obvious reasons.
2) Laika might ask himself, "How would I want to be approached in a similar situation?"
The answer to this question would then (positively, one would hope) shape the approach, and the attitude.
If, after a generic "Copyright Alert" notice had been posted for all board members to read and/or research, and Laika's concerns remained unresolved -- "private" correspondence with the specific parties would have been appropriate.
NOTE: Public ultimatums are akin to being bullied on the playground.
3) If concerns remained after privately "reasoning together" in a mature manner, Laika could, and should, have "also privately" deferred action to the board administrator -- as it is his/her role to continue to navigate through possibly "choppy" waters, in a grace-filled way.
Alas, Laika somehow missed the majority of these steps.
Instead, we felt "broadsided" by a power play - of intimidation.
Why? I still struggle to understand. What was the point??
Was it because we had assertively laid foundation for our stance, by posting current news articles supporting our position --regarding THE LACK of Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Perhaps, (using Lakia's words), his "cup ran over."
And, he lost control.
We became the unsuspecting target for the "copyright" diatribe -- even though countless others on this board (including Laika!) had apparently made identical "errors."
It was a like a whirlwind.
Could it be, that less than one day has passed, from beginning to the end of this bizarre exchange??
In fairness to Laika, I would like to say that I have never observed him to react in this manner before. This gives me hope.
We all have areas in which we have room to grow.
I extend my hand to Lakia in a spirit of healing and reconcilation, for I am a peacemaker.
AMEN.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ataraxia, attached below is an excerpt from an earlier (more lighthearted) email that I drafted to you earlier.
Let us go forward from here --->
'Tis true, we're sinners one & all. (Well, some of us, anyway)...
During this long season of passionate discord,
Tomes of furious pro-war articles were a catalyst for "equal" reams of (very heated!) "Weapons of Mass Destruction" & anti-war protests.
I think it snowballed. I guess a number of us got caught up in our own worldviews & beliefs.
Laika...
I'd post a "photograph" of an Olive Branch (extended toward your name!); however, I don't want to take any undue risks regarding the copyright laws on internet photographs.
Hey Brother, are you here with us?
Join the ranks, and
REPENT.
Whew, this is truly a relief.
Confession is always good for the soul.
Together, we shall stand strong -- and, support one another with "gentle reminders" when (or, if) one might stumble.
We pledge:
NO MORE ...
"Re-posted" writs, diatribes, or professional papers; no more verbatim newspaper articles; no more internet photographs, artwork, or cartoons that were accessed without written copyright permission; no more journal articles, or "forwarded" material that (in retrospect), probably shouldn't have been forwarded yet again; no more magazine articles, chapters from "tempting" books that might be protected by copyrights, (etc., etc., etc.).
Peace and blessings,
(especially to Laika)
<><
====================================================
ataraxia wrote:
quote:
Greetings gang-
Some of our members cut and paste whole news stories taken from news sites, often with no comment of their own. Since such the wholesale copying of news stories from commercial sites without their express written permission is illegal, we’re asking that this practice be discontinued. To help you break free from this habit, I’ll be removing such posts beginning 12 midnight EST Friday, Dec. 19th.
Since I have other things going on in my life as well , it might take me a day or two to lock onto such posts and detonate them, so it would make things much easier for me if those of you (and you know who you two are ) accustomed to this cut-and-paste style of social intercourse discontinue it immediately so I don’t have to remove such posts by hand. I’d appreciate that.
Limited quoting from a source to support a point you are making is fine. Posting the URL of an article you find interesting is fine, especially if you are supporting a point you are actually arguing for. However, simply posting link after link of articles unrelated to an existing discussion of some related issue is little more than advertising and will no longer be permitted. Sorry.
Thanks for understanding and cooperating.
ataraxia
DLW wrote:
quote:
I can write to the NYTIMES and see if I can get their ex-post blessing on the articles I posted, with a promise to go and sin no more...
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