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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/4/2006 8:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | Ok. I know this is a little early. But I'm a "J", so sue me.  We still have some little odds and ends to tie up...and we'll tie those up. But I feel like this is true...
If we just stand back and look at what we've done with our conversations on this board, we may found the building blocks for the following, using dispositional ontology...
1) A way to keep all the good insights of process philosophy...while keeping orthodox Christian belief. (Greg's dissertation did this...AND it grounds Greg's version of OVT/Warfare Worldview!)
2) A theology GROUNDED on beauty...that reframes discussions like homosexuality, marriage, covenant community, etc.
3) A glorification idea that demonstrates providentially how Creation being dedicated to Christ resolves some theodicy tensions.
4) A metaphysically sound, theologically appropriate way that eventual universal reconciliation can occur.
5) A metaphysically sound, theologically appropriate way of viewing "hell", where divine wrath is compossible with perfect love.
6) A CHRISTOCENTRIC, metaphysically sound view of "atonement" that explains all the needed biblical and existential data about the removal of despair in Creation. (remember that we have FOUND the metaphysical lynchpin [dealing with self-disposition of transcendental wholes] that makes this work]
7) A view of "sin" that is HELPFUL and ACCURATE to our experience: Sin as the SICKNESS of the heart: CRAZINESS/INSANITY that emerges from the PAIN of SEPARATION (real or imagined) and CONDEMNATION...where we begin believing things that are NOT REAL and emotionally react to things that are NOT REALITY (ie. death as oblivion and ultimate separation, that evil is winning in this world, etc)
Do we really have an understanding of some of the major things that we have been discovering here?
In my mind, this stuff has the possibility of changing the world.
This is the friggin GOOD NEWS!!!
I know that MY LIFE has been irrevocably CHANGED by much of this continuing discussion. I think that Tom and Corey might say the same.
Anyone else been changed by this emergent conversation? How have you been changed?
Let's share!
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :) Post Edited (Namaste) : 11/4/2006 7:38:51 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 11/4/2006 8:40 AM (GMT -6) | | | Namaste: Anyone else been changed by this emergent conversation? How have you been changed?
Jeff: I have, too. When one can see that "all is full of love," it can't help but increase your joy--even in suffering!!  It also makes you realize more fully than ever that a loving thought or act is never vain, regardless of how it might appear in the short run.
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/4/2006 8:49 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
It also makes you realize more fully than ever that a loving thought or act is never vain, regardless of how it might appear in the short run.
This is why Paul had to keep encouraging his people...
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
And Satan ALWAYS wants us to believe the LIE that the suffering that we endure here isn't compared to the evil. That we aren't making a difference AT ALL in the horrible state of the world...by doing the LITTLE (we feel) that we do for God. But it's a LIE from the ENEMY!
So when we could stand it no longer, we thought it best to be left by ourselves in Athens.We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God's service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. You know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know. For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter had tempted you and that our labors might have been in vain.
Only what conforms to the glory of CHRIST will last! And we have ASSURANCE OF ALL KINDS now...that Christ HAS WON!
No ifs, or buts. Christ HAS conquered the power of sin and death. Christ IS the spiritual head of a New Creation and New Humanity.
The battle's already won...FOR REAL!
NO ONE is lost...for Christ has been lifted up...and has drawn ALL THINGS unto Himself...
...so that all will be recovered in the family reunion called the Great Wedding Feast.
Everything IS okay RIGHT NOW...because everything WILL BE ok!
Christus Victor, baby!
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
Everything that will be well...is well already! Post Edited (Namaste) : 11/4/2006 8:00:41 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/4/2006 9:16 AM (GMT -6) | | For anyone who has enduring the pain of losing someone...either in this life or by them passing on...
YOU WILL BE REUNITED WITH THEM IN PEACE.
There will be a time when you are rightly-related to them. And enjoy life in the presence of God.
Family relationships will be healed. Grudges will be forgotten. Forgiveness and grace will be everywhere.
A big family reunion.
Moreover, you've got Jesus, Moses, Elijah and all these other people CHEERING YOU ON...
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
It's hard...but let's not let our pain here...take our minds off of the TRUTH.
NO ONE IS EVER LOST...thanks to Christ.
Christmas Day is coming. And EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD EVER HOPE FOR WILL BE THERE. We will have the rest we want.
It's Christmas Eve, 6:24 pm.
God's got stuff for us to do.
We are to tell people about Christmas Day. We are to life a life of love and expectancy that convinces people of the reality of Christmas. We are to live lives that incarnate Christ (his beauty, his meekness, his love, his compassion) to the world...and the whole WORLD can participate in the joy right now.
This is our mission.
Let's do it.
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 11/4/2006 9:42 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/4/2006 9:44 AM (GMT -6) | | Good sound track:
(o)Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 11/4/2006 8:47:45 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/4/2006 9:58 AM (GMT -6) | | 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Romans 11:25-32
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not think you are superior: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Our God is an Awesome God
He Reigns from Heaven above
With Wisdom, Power and Love...
Our God is an Awesome God.
Ever blessed by the Name of the Lord Jesus!
PS: B. I LOVE Ancient Faith Radio now...
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
Everything that will be well...is well already! | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/4/2006 10:45 AM (GMT -6) | | With palms pushing up and down against the sky...
Oh yeah, it's my birthday
Oh yeah, I'm so happy
Oh yeah, it's my birthday
Oh yeah, I'm so happy...
Ooooooooweeeee!
Tom
Post Edited (TGB) : 11/4/2006 9:51:37 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/4/2006 11:17 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 11/4/2006 11:36 AM (GMT -6) | | | For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
I think this is one of the strongest hints at UR there is. And the verse that says where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. Even more than the others that superficially sound more universalist. It's almost like God is giving us the seed information to work it out without revealing it explicitly (since there is always a bit of equivocalness in the mere grammar of the verses). We have all the information to see how it can work, but it's like God is more interested in using His word to provide a loving invitation to experience that co-glorification with Christ that can be had in this day of salvation by those who suffer with Christ volitionally. As though God is more concerned with what we might miss out on. And ain't that just love unadulterated!!
It just blows the mind that God is literally passionately desirous that we experience as much of His beneficence as possible. We long to be renewed unto that love and peace that surpasses all undertanding so we can enjoy God to the uttermost--to literally max out our joy meter!! Yet God longs to have His joy filled up by experiencing fellowship with us in total intimacy more than we can begin to imagine!!
Happy birthday Tom!!! Come quickly Lord Jesus!!!
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 11/5/2006 6:56 PM (GMT -6) | | Namaste: Anyone else been changed by this emergent conversation? How have you been changed?
VFG: Yeah, in many ways for me. For one, my understanding of what sin is, what contributes to its occurance, and how God aims to redeem that. That has helped me to develop a greater understanding for others and how we need to help them recognize and desire the beauty they've been missing. For another, this has helped me gain a better understanding of universalism and I realize it is a strong possibility. I find it harder and harder to accept the Medieval view of ECT, so basically have my right foot in Greg's (ala CS Lewis') view that I read in one of his books (the "gradually diminishing whatever-it's-called" view) and my left foot in universalism with my pinkie in the annihilationist view. This has also helped me with understanding the idea of "the God who suffers because, with, and for" idea. And also what you wrote: "Sin as the SICKNESS of the heart: CRAZINESS/INSANITY that emerges from the PAIN of SEPARATION (real or imagined) and CONDEMNATION...where we begin believing things that are NOT REAL and emotionally react to things that are NOT REALITY".
And basically these discussions here have helped equip me in answering some of the questions some of the youth at our church have asked me. (Dude, yeah, they ask some pretty tough questions... ) So I'm glad the board discussions didn't stop a year ago when we were wondering if it would. 
Post Edited (Violin for God) : 11/5/2006 6:00:29 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/6/2006 9:04 AM (GMT -6) | | Here are some sites that will help you...
Dr. John Cobb answers the question: What is the relation between process theology and openness theology?"
www.processandfaith.org/askcobb/2001/02-openth.shtml
Article on Process theism
plato.stanford.edu/entries/process-theism/
Basically, Greg's reconstruction allows for God to have MUCH MORE PROVIDENTIAL ABILITY than process theology. His construction allows for God's self-limitation (and corresponding free, GRACEFUL interaction with Creation)...whereas process doesn't allow for this at all. Moreover, Greg's system actually has God being having TRUE ASEITY where God doesn't need a Creation to relate to...which process CANNOT say!
The most important thing in my mind...the thing that makes ALL OF IT POSSIBLE...is Greg's abduction of DISPOSITIONAL ONTOLOGY. It is exactly what's needed to solve problems in process.
Hope this helps.
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
Everything that will be well...is well already! | | Back to Top | | |
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