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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 11/23/2006 10:25 AM (GMT -6)

POW:
Revival, not reformation.

Reformation VIA Revival.

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/23/2006 10:25 AM (GMT -6)

D/T: She’s a beautiful ship. But as it travels through the seas, it picks up barnacles, extra weight. Things that get attached to the hull and impede its travel.

PoW: Yes.

D/T: Eventually you have to dry-dock that baby and clean it up and refit it for the water. It’s like each generation, or every so often we have to dry dock the Church and figure out again what’s non-negotiable HULL.

PoW: W/o altering the hull.

(o)

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/23/2006 10:27 AM (GMT -6)

Namaste said...
POW:
Revival, not reformation.

Reformation VIA Revival.

(o)

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/23/2006 10:32 AM (GMT -6)

John Behr makes the point that the Fathers of Nicea were NOT trying to come up with a formulation (one definition of theology--a schoolish one), but rather were striving to answer the question JESUS asked: "Who do YOU say that I am."

ALL else can be and is an outgrowth of that center.

(o)

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/23/2006 10:59 AM (GMT -6)

D/T: ...novelty is antithetical to tradition.

PHR: "history without tradition is dead"

John Thompson: Tradition is an attempt to reclaim the fullness of Jesus Christ himself within the Church.

PHR: Tradition is not just a set of teachings. It includes also a context of communion and sacramental worship.

PHR: Sacred Tradition, then, is not simply an inherited body of propositional truths. What we transmit in the Apostolic Tradition is not just a dogmatic and ethical corpus. What is handed on is the living, Spirit-bearing Christ himself, forming his People.

(o)

Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 11/23/2006 11:24 AM (GMT -6)

POW: W/o altering the hull.

Tom: Yes, so long as the Fathers, or any other traditions, aren't viewed AS THE HULL itself. View them as ship repairmen, expert sailors, engineers, draftsmen, cleaners, workers, painters, plumbers, or anything else that we ourselves are and can be as caretakers of the hull...just not as invioble parts of the ship itself. Can you say this?

POW: PHR: Sacred Tradition, then, is not simply an inherited body of propositional truths. What we transmit in the Apostolic Tradition is not just a dogmatic and ethical corpus. What is handed on is the living, Spirit-bearing Christ himself, forming his People.

Tom: Maps are never sacred. Language is not sacred. Only territory is sacred. But where an experience of the Spirit, territory itself, is being passed on, there is sacredness, and no fear. But like all revivals and reformations, maps are mistaken for territory. Exposing THIS conflation IS THE REFORMATION that's needed. It won't happen painlessly.

Tom

Post Edited (TGB) : 11/23/2006 10:29:33 AM (GMT-6)

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/23/2006 11:32 AM (GMT -6)

Agreed: the fathers are not the hull. Though the are in some ways PARTS of part of the hull.

That's why I posted the quotes I found.

This part bears reposting:

QUOTE: Tradition is ... the living, Spirit-bearing Christ himself, forming his People.

(You and I are part of that "tradition" too.)

(o)

One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 2/22/2007 10:37 AM (GMT -6)

More...

Necessary Existence is "Energy in Interdependent Relationship Seeking and Satisfying a "Disposition" towards Simultaneous Novelty and Equilibrium."

First impressions?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 2/23/2007 11:19 AM (GMT -6)

Okay... first impression. In general as I've been soaking on this stuff, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with what feels like (to me) a conflation of God and Energy, the personal and the impersonal. It seems, with this description, we're missing the what SK calls the "negative third" -- the relation that relates itself to itself.

Maybe the clause about novelty is intended to address this? Maybe it's implied that novelty cannot occur without personal intention? But I don't think, from what I know, that this is the way novelty is considered in Process. Novelty is just what results from prehension of an actual occasion... personality is superfluous to this.

Post Edited (Corey) : 2/23/2007 10:25:41 AM (GMT-6)

One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 2/23/2007 1:07 PM (GMT -6)

Corey,

Is God ultimately separable from God's Energy?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 2/23/2007 2:56 PM (GMT -6)

No, God is not ultimately separable from God's Energy. But this doesn't mean that Energy is an interchangeable synonym for God. Something gets lost there, it seems.

How about this:
Necessary Existence is "Personal Energy in Interdependent Relationship Seeking and Satisfying a "Disposition" towards Simultaneous Novelty and Equilibrium."

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 2/23/2007 7:43 PM (GMT -6)

Or this:

Necessary Existence is Pure Consciousness/Energy in Interdependent Relationship Seeking and Satisfying a "Disposition" towards Simultaneous Novelty and Equilibrium.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 4/24/2007 11:48 PM (GMT -6)

For my use...

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete Unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

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