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June
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   Posted 1/26/2002 9:43 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Pia,

could you please explain your panentheistic views? i'm very interested to know what this is. i've read very little about it, and i like to hear from you what it all entails.

June

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pia†desideria
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   Posted 1/26/2002 2:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I will try to hit this some time next week… pia

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
“Peace to the one who wrote and to the one who reads and to those who love the Lord in simplicity of heart.” § Melito of Sardis
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pia†desideria
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   Posted 2/3/2002 12:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi June. Thanks for your interest, sorry I did not respond sooner. Since you started this thread, I’ve realized that metaphysics is not my strong suit and I’ve been taking some inventory.

Briefly, panentheism is a way of taking the omnipresence of God very seriously—God is present in our midst (Emmanuel, God with us), but God’s presence is not limited to our midst. It is true that historically panentheism has not been held by evangelicals who believe that God is creator or that God is triune. However, I see no reason why this need remain the case.

If others want to pick up the discussion from here, welcome to the conversation. Personally, I plan to suspend my exploration of this topic indefinitely and focus on other things.

pia

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
“Peace to the one who wrote and to the one who reads and to those who love the Lord in simplicity of heart.” § Melito of Sardis
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 2/3/2002 1:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi June. Thanks, Pia.

some websearching shows the strong recent-historical connection between panentheism and process theology. But when I did a search with +panentheism, +orthodoxy and +palamas (St. Gregory Palamas, a Byzatine mystic) i got the article below. Palamas was a Hesychast monk who fought the scholastic rationalism being brought to the East by Barlaam. So, the below is NOT influenced by Modernism, nor is it New-Age. Note the bold and the underlined portions.

It is down the middle Christianity!

quote:
Sunday Sermon – 2nd Sunday of Lent – Gregory Palamas – 3/26/00 – HT, PDX

By Rev. Demetrios Tsigas

In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen.

On this second Sunday of Great Lent our Church commemorates St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of Thessalonike. Why?

Last Sunday, the first of Great Lent, we commemorated the return of icons to the life of the Church and affirmed our faith as being passed on unchanged from Jesus Christ and His disciples on to us today. St. Gregory Palamas was a fairly late saint. He died on November 14, 1359. So why not use an earlier saint like Basil or Chrysostom?

Let’s get some basic information on St. Gregory Palamas. He was born in Constantinople about 1296. He became a monk of the great community at Mount Athos. Here he was one of the foremost supporters and practitioners of a type of contemplation called Hesychasm. The Hesychasts claimed that, by suitable spiritual disciplines, those engaged in contemplative prayer could come to see the "uncreated light" of God. Their opponents objected that this doctrine was inconsistent with the unity and the transcendence of God. At first, Hesychasm was condemned as heretical and Gregory was excommunicated. However, in 1347, thanks chiefly to the unwavering support of the monks of Mount Athos, Gregory was brought back from exile, cleared of heretical charges, and made bishop of Thessalonika. After much controversy, his position was declared orthodox by the church of Constantinople in 1351.

So we see that Gregory was an ascetic who achieved a high degree of sanctification. Great Lent is a time for us to take on the ascetic life, fasting, prayer and good works, in order to draw near to God and His light, to know God intimately. Interestingly, before the big controversy over Hesychasm, Gregory became an abbot at the Esphigmenou Monastery on Mount Athos. He was so strict that the monks rebelled and threw him out. It was from here that he went on to defend Hesychasm and be elected Archbishop of Thessalonike. His life was marked by many of these ups and downs. The same monks who threw him out, later rallied around him in the controversy over hesychasm.

Gregory quotes St. Basil in defending Hesychasm- "We know our God from His energies, but we do not claim that we can draw near to His essence." This concept of God’s essence and His energies was a very important one. It is God’s essence that is beyond comprehension, beyond our grasp both rationally and spiritually. When we encounter God, it is by grace ( a free gift) in His energies. An example from nature that serves as an imperfect analogy is the sun. We don’t have direct contact with the sun itself, with its essence, because that would totally atomize us. We do however feel the energies of the sun, warming our planet, giving life to all plants, providing vitamin D and tanning our bodies, and bringing a smile to our faces.

This is an important concept in Orthodoxy. For those who came to the Pan-Orthodox retreat a week ago Saturday, it is this distinction that differentiates between the heretical concept of pantheism and the Orthodox concept of panentheism. Pantheism states that God is all, and all things are God, that is to say that God’s essence, is in all things and therefore we can and should worship trees, rocks, the sun, the moon, etc. Panentheism, is the belief that God, that is to say God’s energies, is in all things, and that therefore all creation is worthy of respect. This reinforces the biblical understanding that God has called us to be good stewards of all creation. We are called to take care of the world, providing for our own needs without wasting or abusing anything in God’s creation.

Gregory also used this concept of God’s essence and energies to explain how God is mystically present in the Eucharist, in Holy Communion. It is God’s energies that are present there, not His essence. We should receive Holy Communion often in order to fill ourselves with the energies of God.

Bishop Kallistos Ware makes an important observation. In the Orthodox Church, we focus on the Resurrected Jesus Christ and on the Transfiguration of Jesus on Mt. Tabor. Thus an outward sign of sanctity or holiness among Orthodox saints is shining with God’s uncreated light. In the Catholic Church, with its focus on the Crucified Christ, on Jesus as the suffering servant, the outward sign of holiness is often the stigmata, reflecting Christ’s pierced hands, feet and side in one’s own flesh. Of course there are many other manifestations of holiness in both our Churches’ histories and traditions.

As we come out of the starting gate of the fast and complete the first two laps, St. Gregory Palamas is presented to us as a bold example of faith in action. He is a role model in thought, word and deed. I pray that each of us may grow and be richly blessed through the course of the fast. I pray that God’s energies may course through our spiritual veins, transforming us with God’s uncreated light of truth, peace and love.

To God be the glory, now and forever and to the ages of ages, Amen.

------------------------
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
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June
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Date Joined Dec 2001
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   Posted 2/3/2002 2:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

thanks pow, and pia that's cool you got other stuff to do.

so why aren't there more catholics panentheists, or are they? why aren't there more panentheists in general?

June

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 2/3/2002 4:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
so why aren't there more catholics panentheists, or are they? why aren't there more panentheists in general?

I'd do some websearching on sites, but then edit for those sites that seem mainline RCC. (Are you RCC?)

I think that the point is that anything that is an IST or an ISM is what's to avoid. My web-reading is that the Eastern tradition is being mined (this is a good thing) by the RCC. Lots of interestin Maximus the Confessor and St. Gregory Palamas on RCC websites.

Take care.

PoW
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chance
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   Posted 2/3/2002 5:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've heard from a reliable source that Elizabeth Johnson, who is Catholic, holds to a form of panentheism but It's not the same as the panentheism of process theism.

chance

A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 12/6/2006 7:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here, D., Tom.


(o)

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 12/6/2006 7:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is down the middle Christianity!

quote:
Sunday Sermon – 2nd Sunday of Lent – Gregory Palamas – 3/26/00 – HT, PDX

By Rev. Demetrios Tsigas

In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen.

On this second Sunday of Great Lent our Church commemorates St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of Thessalonike. Why?

Last Sunday, the first of Great Lent, we commemorated the return of icons to the life of the Church and affirmed our faith as being passed on unchanged from Jesus Christ and His disciples on to us today. St. Gregory Palamas was a fairly late saint. He died on November 14, 1359. So why not use an earlier saint like Basil or Chrysostom?

Let’s get some basic information on St. Gregory Palamas. He was born in Constantinople about 1296. He became a monk of the great community at Mount Athos. Here he was one of the foremost supporters and practitioners of a type of contemplation called Hesychasm. The Hesychasts claimed that, by suitable spiritual disciplines, those engaged in contemplative prayer could come to see the "uncreated light" of God. Their opponents objected that this doctrine was inconsistent with the unity and the transcendence of God. At first, Hesychasm was condemned as heretical and Gregory was excommunicated. However, in 1347, thanks chiefly to the unwavering support of the monks of Mount Athos, Gregory was brought back from exile, cleared of heretical charges, and made bishop of Thessalonika. After much controversy, his position was declared orthodox by the church of Constantinople in 1351.

So we see that Gregory was an ascetic who achieved a high degree of sanctification. Great Lent is a time for us to take on the ascetic life, fasting, prayer and good works, in order to draw near to God and His light, to know God intimately. Interestingly, before the big controversy over Hesychasm, Gregory became an abbot at the Esphigmenou Monastery on Mount Athos. He was so strict that the monks rebelled and threw him out. It was from here that he went on to defend Hesychasm and be elected Archbishop of Thessalonike. His life was marked by many of these ups and downs. The same monks who threw him out, later rallied around him in the controversy over hesychasm.

Gregory quotes St. Basil in defending Hesychasm- "We know our God from His energies, but we do not claim that we can draw near to His essence." This concept of God’s essence and His energies was a very important one. It is God’s essence that is beyond comprehension, beyond our grasp both rationally and spiritually. When we encounter God, it is by grace ( a free gift) in His energies. An example from nature that serves as an imperfect analogy is the sun. We don’t have direct contact with the sun itself, with its essence, because that would totally atomize us. We do however feel the energies of the sun, warming our planet, giving life to all plants, providing vitamin D and tanning our bodies, and bringing a smile to our faces.

This is an important concept in Orthodoxy. For those who came to the Pan-Orthodox retreat a week ago Saturday, it is this distinction that differentiates between the heretical concept of pantheism and the Orthodox concept of panentheism. Pantheism states that God is all, and all things are God, that is to say that God’s essence, is in all things and therefore we can and should worship trees, rocks, the sun, the moon, etc. Panentheism, is the belief that God, that is to say God’s energies, is in all things, and that therefore all creation is worthy of respect. This reinforces the biblical understanding that God has called us to be good stewards of all creation. We are called to take care of the world, providing for our own needs without wasting or abusing anything in God’s creation.

Gregory also used this concept of God’s essence and energies to explain how God is mystically present in the Eucharist, in Holy Communion. It is God’s energies that are present there, not His essence. We should receive Holy Communion often in order to fill ourselves with the energies of God.

Bishop Kallistos Ware makes an important observation. In the Orthodox Church, we focus on the Resurrected Jesus Christ and on the Transfiguration of Jesus on Mt. Tabor. Thus an outward sign of sanctity or holiness among Orthodox saints is shining with God’s uncreated light. In the Catholic Church, with its focus on the Crucified Christ, on Jesus as the suffering servant, the outward sign of holiness is often the stigmata, reflecting Christ’s pierced hands, feet and side in one’s own flesh. Of course there are many other manifestations of holiness in both our Churches’ histories and traditions.

As we come out of the starting gate of the fast and complete the first two laps, St. Gregory Palamas is presented to us as a bold example of faith in action. He is a role model in thought, word and deed. I pray that each of us may grow and be richly blessed through the course of the fast. I pray that God’s energies may course through our spiritual veins, transforming us with God’s uncreated light of truth, peace and love.

To God be the glory, now and forever and to the ages of ages, Amen.

------------------------
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America


(o)

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 12/8/2007 1:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This too, on "panentheism."


(o)

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