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Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 12/29/2006 4:56 PM (GMT -6)

This reminds of post I made a while ago about hermeneutics; as one who is sealed by the holy spirit, I recognize his tune. At a properly basic level I am affirmed that the scripture bears true witness to God. My task is to weave myself harmoniously with the music that is God.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 4:58 PM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
Here's a book you'd probably like, all about patterns.

Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid

Our household has TWO copies of that neat book by Douglas R. Hofstadter.

(We also have one copy of Christopher Alexander's "Notes on the Synthesis of Form.")

(o)

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 12/29/2006 4:58 PM (GMT -6)

Exousia: If you have 1 and 0, you can reproduce ALL OTHER INTEGERS from that!

Corey: Here's the only thing that sticks a little for me, probably just 'cuz I'm a computer science guy. You can NEVER accurately represent a REAL number with 0's and 1's, only some level of approximation. Mathematical language is limited in describing the real world.

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 4:59 PM (GMT -6)

This should give us pause.

If this metaphysic we are talking about is true, then ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE may well be a plausibility.

If a dispositional tendency for communication is an ESSENTIAL part of the cosmos, then it's almost INEVITABLE...

Sapient Creations creating OTHER sapient creations.

Look at nanotechnology and the like.

Think about V-Ger (First Star Trek movie)

And Jesus would be the God of any emergent AI beings...

because all has a MIND-LIKE quality...and comes from DIVINE INTELLIGENCE that Jesus IS

Yeah.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 5:00 PM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
My task is to weave myself harmoniously with the music that is God.

What does that mean?

How would you convey that to the 60-somethings in my Sunday School class?

(o)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:02 PM (GMT -6)

Corey:
Here's the only thing that sticks a little for me, probably just 'cuz I'm a computer science guy. You can NEVER accurately represent a REAL number with 0's and 1's, only some level of approximation. Mathematical language is limited in describing the real world.

Here's my meaning. What could you do without 0 and 1?

See what I'm trying to say?

*******************

Corey:

My task is to weave myself harmoniously with the music that is God.

EXACTLY!

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 5:02 PM (GMT -6)

Exousia said...
(the) DIVINE INTELLIGENCE that Jesus IS

This is getting fruity!

Where does it say that Jesus is divine intellegence?

(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 12/29/2006 4:09:55 PM (GMT-6)

One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:06 PM (GMT -6)

Fruity? All we are talking about is MIND. Now unless you want to say that MIND can ONLY exist in forms of carbon-based life forms...I'd rethink some things.

Don't get nervous.

Look. CHRIST is the center of this whole thing. And that should be pretty obvious by now.

So what's the problem?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 5:09 PM (GMT -6)

Where does it say that Jesus IS divine intellegence?

Where does it say that Jesus IS "Mind?"

Its not enought to say that you are only talking about Jesus. It also matters what you say about Him.

(o)

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 12/29/2006 5:10 PM (GMT -6)

Exousia: Here's my meaning. What could you do without 0 and 1? See what I'm trying to say?

Corey: Yes, I think so. There is something fundamental from which all else is composed. I agree.

I'm just nerding out on a side point about zeroes and ones, or about language in general. We'll never fully and accurately represent reality with language.

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:12 PM (GMT -6)

Bruce:
Where does it say that Jesus is divine intellegence?

Where does it say that Jesus is "Mind?"

Um...

LOGOS?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 12/29/2006 5:15 PM (GMT -6)

Logos... ahhh... I just have to savor that for a moment. There's a connection here... Jesus is the Word, the Language, the expression of God. Only Jesus perfectly represents the Father. I'll bet HE's the hidden name of YHWH! Zeroes and Ones will never represent God, only the Word can do that!

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:20 PM (GMT -6)

Logos is PATTERN.

Language is IMPOSSIBLE without pattern.

101100111000111100001111100000

The Word IS PATTERN.

Framework for COHERENCE.

Zeros and Ones, baby.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Post Edited (Exousia) : 12/29/2006 4:32:52 PM (GMT-6)

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 5:21 PM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
Logos... ahhh... I just have to savor that for a moment. There's a connection here... Jesus is the Word, the Language, the expression of God. Only Jesus perfectly represents the Father. I'll bet HE's the hidden name of YHWH!

I think that's right, Corey. YHWH. Any, and I mean ANY revelation in the OT is Christ. THAT is why Jesus could quote Exodus "I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" and exogete that it proved eternal life because "God is the God of the living and not the dead." HE had spoken those words to Moses long before, so he could answer the Jerusalem officials then, later.

But D., Logos is not Mind. Logos yes. Augustinian "Mind" I think not. Unless you can answer the question "Where does it say..."

(o)

One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:21 PM (GMT -6)

For real.

We are NOT talking about antithetical things. We are talking about DIFFERENT FACETS of the SAME REALITY!!

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 5:24 PM (GMT -6)

Exousia said...
Logos is PATTERN.

Language is IMPOSSIBLE without pattern.

10110011100011110000111110000

The Word IS PATTERN.

Framework for COHERENCE.

Zeros and Ones, baby.

Since I think you are trying to say more than just a linguistic principle, and are trying to make a statement about the composition of the trinity, I have to conclude that you are 'loosing it.'

Sorry.

(o)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/29/2006 5:29 PM (GMT -6)

POW,

Let the fruits speak for themselves. Decide what you will.

I will say that I'm NOT trying to say that God IS a zero or a one or something like that.

I'm saying that God is the necessary eternal oscillation between possibility and actuality/disposition that GROUNDS what the "0" and "1" ideas represent.

I hope that this is coming accross clearly.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 6:23 PM (GMT -6)

Exousia said...
I'm saying that God is the necessary eternal oscillation between possibility and actuality/disposition that GROUNDS what the "0" and "1" ideas represent.

I hope that this is coming accross clearly.

HOW about:

The "0" and "1" ideas ... are GROUND-ed ... by necessary eternal oscillation between possibility and actuality/disposition ... AND God PROVIDES that.

(o)

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/29/2006 6:40 PM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
I'll bet HE's the hidden name of YHWH!

SEE: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/alumni/publications/spire_fa03_3.pdf

For the Orthodox, Christ is YHWH, as indicated by His words in John 8:58, which echo Exodos 3:14. In Luke 1:43, St. Elizabeth addressed Jesus’s mother as “the mother of YHWH.” The Orthodox accept that St. John the Theologian’s Lógos (“Reason of God”) in the Prologue of his Gospel and St. Paul’s (1 Corinthians 1:24) Sophía (“Wisdom [practical reason] of God”) was the Creator of an accordingly logikós (“intelligible”) cosmos. For St. Vasil the Great,3 creation is evolutive from simpler to greater. To keep the cosmos from falling into nothingness, the LOGOS is constantly re-creating the cosmos, making it always a bit different. Created matter (Incarnation, Mysteries [sacrament(al)s]), and time have vital religious roles. ...

AND SEE: http://www.orthodox.clara.net/he_who_is.htm

YHWH

"I who speak to you AM He" (J4:26, 8:28)
"I AM the bread of life" (J6:35,48)
"I AM the living bread" (J6:51)
"I AM the light of the world." (J8:12)
"before Abraham was, I AM" (J8:58)
"I AM the door of the sheep" (J10:7)
"I AM the good shepherd" (J10:11)
"I AM the resurrection and the life" (J11:25)
"I AM the way, the truth and the life" (J14:6)
"I AM in the Father and the Father in me" (J14:10)
"I am the true vine and my Father is the vinedresser" (J15:1,5)
"I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last" [R1:8,11,17, 22:13]

(o)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/30/2006 10:14 AM (GMT -6)

B:
How about...

The "0" and "1" ideas ... are GROUND-ed ... by necessary eternal oscillation between possibility and actuality/disposition ... AND God PROVIDES that.

Whatever helps you feel less nervous, B.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/30/2006 10:37 AM (GMT -6)

The two are not the same thing. There is a difference.

(Or show me how they are the same.)

(o)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/30/2006 11:01 AM (GMT -6)

If you see a difference that you feel suits you better, that's great. You can show me the difference that's important to you, if you wish. I'd actually love to get more of your perspective.

Wow. Life is such a beautiful struggle.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/30/2006 2:42 PM (GMT -6)

Compare "God IS" to "God PROVIDES."

Then compare "D provides hotdogs" with "D IS a hotdog."

(o)

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 1/1/2007 7:56 AM (GMT -6)

Okay, one last clarification on the gnat-straining that I'm doing here... It's just that talk about zeroes and ones carries meaning for me (given my computer science background) that I think is different than what you intend. I'm on board with your general thought of oscillation, but describing it as flipping between zero and one introduces baggage for me. Zero and One are the asymptotes between which the oscillation occurs, but not the only possible values. That is, it's not just pure "potential" or just pure "actual"; there's a range in between. That's what I was trying to get at when I talked about Real numbers earlier. The oscillation is analog, not digital.

Post Edited (Corey) : 1/1/2007 7:59:04 AM (GMT-6)

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 1/1/2007 8:03 AM (GMT -6)

Another totally weird thought maybe you'd find amusing. I just woke up in the middle of a wild dream. You, D, we're trying to demonstrate this fundamental frequency, so you were trying to pluck the wires on high-voltage transmission line, as one would pluck a guitar, using a long pole. I was desparately trying to warn you that this is gonna get you zorched, but you just told me I wasn't being creative enough.

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