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Similitude
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:46 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Right. We have expressions of divine love that are clearly altruistic. But they tend to be expressed in scriptural passages, like the one in John, where the extrinsic value of the elect is always brought out. This constant distinction between the elect and the non-elect is what makes seeing UR difficult. But when we stand back and look at the picture, we see it take on another view just like those trick pictures that have the two complete scenes depending on your perspective.

This is why I think it is appropriate that John was the one who said that God is love. His gospel starts off with the profound revelation that creation was FOR ANOTHER. Here we see the relational nature of God. From there, we can work out the distinction between value that is extrinsically related to temporal ends and value/worth that is inherent by virtue of God's relational nature and full competence to make us pleasing to Himself. Blessed be His name UNTO THE AGES OF THE AGES!!!!


 

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And guess what?

Jesus did this FOR ALL OF CREATION, not just human beings.

Jesus HEALED the dispositional tendency of Creation towards MISRELATION as the NEW ADAM (aka the "representative of the TRANSCENDENTAL WHOLE of Creation.

The CORNERSTONE has been revealed to be the WHOLE BUILDING.

And we are BRICKS in that BUILDING!

Yeah.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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Similitude
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hedonism at its FINEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Let Everything that has ENERGY praise their REDEEMER!

biggrin 
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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Now see, dear reader.

That JOY that you fill in your heart right now?

That LOVE that you are sensing right now?

THAT'S what the Gospel is SUPPOSED to do for you.

Let's spread this.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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Similitude
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   Posted 1/20/2007 11:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
AMEN, BRO!


 

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom.

The Fuse has been lit.

Let's get ready.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
One reason that the Son of God (the Consequent Hypostasis of God) is absolutely WORTHY of all HONOR and GLORY that can be bestowed upon ANY being is that it was the Son who EXPERIENCED THE PAIN OF MISRELATION. The Primordial Hypostasis couldn't do it by definition of being of PRIMARY existence. (No Patripassionism)

Creation was a FREE CHOICE for God to experience PAIN from misrelation, even as God would bring BEAUTY from that pain...

And the Consequent Hypostasis bore that pain...for people who constantly misrelate and don't even BELIEVE in Him.

Blessed be the Name of Jesus...forever.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don:
Each day I can make choices that demonstrate PERFECT LOVE and reflect the love that God is.

In a live album Barry McGuire told of God being like the sun and us like the moon, reflecting the light of the sun. He ended the story by saying, "I want to be a FULL moon".



The Word of the Lord:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


P.E.R.F.E.C.T. L.O.V.E.
 
The truth:

We are "reflections" of perfect perspectival sociality.
 
We are "images" of God...and God is love.
 
This is demonstrated by Jesus, the Son of God.

Everything else is commentary.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Post Edited (Exousia) : 1/20/2007 11:45:46 AM (GMT-6)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What are your gut impressions about all this, Corey?


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce?


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Exousia said...
The One Logos is the many logoi, and the many logoi are the One Logos.
 
No.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 12:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmmm...

Bruce, that's a DIRECT QUOTE from Maximus the Confessor HIMSELF.

Yes. :-)


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/20/2007 1:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
IF SO...

HOW was he using it. And HOW are you using it.

It can easily be used a totally wrong way. And as I quickly browsed it felt like you were saying that the Logos is "comprised" of a sum of logoi, and that the logoi are eminations of the Logos "nature." (vs. energies.)

Sorry if I jumped to a conclusion. (But you could anticipate reader's impressions too!)

Now, reward me with explaining what YOU MEAN!


(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 1/20/2007 12:31:45 PM (GMT-6)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 1:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/06/09/pathway-to-the-truth-the-doctrine-of-recapitulation/

All emphases are the author's...

“The Confessor elegantly summarizes this doctrine and its principles of operation in a compact sentence: “The One Logos is the many logoi, and the many logoi are the One Logos.” (Ambigua 7, PG 91:1081C). In other words, in His incarnation and enhominzation, Jesus Christ possesses and is all the fullness of the universals common both to deity and humanity. In terms of the four principles enumerated above, then, this works itself out in a multitude of ways. In terms of preeminence, it means that Christ is both the presupposition, the method, the paradigm, and the summit of whatever might be said either about God or about man. God is truly, uniquely, ultimately, and finally revealed in the Word Incarnate. And man, perfect humanity, is also only understood properly in its union with the Word. In scriptural terms, Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega of all that can be said about God and man, and thus has the preeminence “in all things” (Col. 1:18). Being thus, preeminent in all things, Christ becomes the final context, the ultimate and perfect “recontextualization” and repetition, of the logoi, understood here as both the words of the Old Testament Scriptures and the principles of nature: of creation as a whole and man in particular."

------------------------

Next...

"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it (GUESS WHO???), in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew (THINK LOGOI!) he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

----------------------

IT'S...ALL...RIGHT...THERE!! biggrin


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/20/2007 1:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Here:   http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/06/09/pathway-to-the-truth-the-doctrine-of-recapitulation/

THE RED-UNDERLINED PORTION DEFINES "IS."

 

“At the center of St. Maximus’ theological and christological universe is the doctrine of

Recapitulation. It is this doctrine which forms the basis of all that the New Testament

and the Fathers have to say in connection with the Incarnation. While the term

“recapitulation” itself appears only twice in the New Testament, the concept itself occurs

repeatedly; one has only to recognize its principles of operation in order to know when it

is being applied. These may be categorized as follows: 1) preeminence 2) repetition and

recontextualization, 3) reversal, and 4) fulfillment.

 

“The Confessor elegantly summarizes this doctrine and its principles of operation in a

compact sentence: “The One Logos is the many logoi, and the many logoi are the One

Logos.” (Ambigua 7, PG 91:1081C). In other words, in His incarnation and

enhominzation, Jesus Christ possesses and is all the fullness of the universals common

both to deity and humanity. In terms of the four principles enumerated above, then, this

works itself out in a multitude of ways. In terms of preeminence, it means that Christ is

both the presupposition, the method, the paradigm, and the summit of whatever might

be said either about God or about man. God is truly, uniquely, ultimately, and finally

revealed in the Word Incarnate. And man, perfect humanity, is also only understood

properly in its union with the Word. In scriptural terms, Jesus Christ is the Alpha and

Omega of all that can be said about God and man, and thus has the preeminence “in all

things” (Col. 1:18). Being thus, preeminent in all things, Christ becomes the final context,

the ultimate and perfect “recontextualization” and repetition, of the logoi, understood

here as both the words of the Old Testament Scriptures and the principles of nature: of

creation as a whole and man in particular. That is, not only are the typological themes of

Scripture repeated in His Incarnate Economy from His conception of His Second Advent,

of each individual human being in particular. In doing so, he reverses the effects of the

Fall. As the Second Adam, the entire drama of the Fall is replayed, this time to an

opposite conclusion. Instead of a Fall into passions and corruption, mankind in Christ is

raised and exalted. Deification and the spiritual life, in other words, are integral

components and implications of the doctrine of Recapitulation. By thus repeating, and in

some cases reversing, the typological themes of Holy Scripture and the natural laws and

stages of humanity, Christ is not only preeminent in all things, but fulfills all Old

Testament prophecy and expectation concerning His Coming, there being nothing more

that can be said about them outside of and without reference to Christ.”

–Dr. Joseph P. Farrell (+Photios), Introduction to The Disputation with Pyrrhus Of Our

Father Among The Saints Maximus the Confessor, p. iii-iv

 
 



(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 1/20/2007 12:32:51 PM (GMT-6)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/20/2007 1:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I guess that clears up that.


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 3:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting thought.

God is to Creation...as a hypersphere is to an ordinary sphere.

We are often immature FLATLANDIANS trying to comprehend the HYPERSPHERIC reality.
 
But Jesus was the PERFECT LIKENESS of God in contingent expressive form.
 
The SPHERE of Creational Relationality.

Think about it.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Post Edited (Exousia) : 1/20/2007 2:14:56 PM (GMT-6)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 6:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
God is Our Father/Mother/Sibling/Lord/Source/Friend/Lover/Sustenance/Spouse

God is ALL.

And ALL we need.



It's called "Absolute" by blackeri

blackeri's comments:
"Absolute - a divine spark of inspiration
Absolute - beyond human control
Absolute - complete, infinite and unconditional

Embraced by Ars, the Artist turns into stone and becomes Ars himself, melting with Her into Unity. Or, maybe, Her touch brings the petrified Artist to life, since he cannot achieve full humanity without Her blessing.

Ars, subtle as She is, has a power over the artist, who is helpless and dependant, although rewarded with a laurel wreath. In his suffering he knows that the golden crown is a burden. As much as he would like to break free, he is not able to escape from this slavery. Alone, he cannot exist, so his soul is riven between pain and happiness, protest and devotion. Only united with Ars he can come to the complete and perfect entity - Absolute.



I have a distinct observation.

Kinda linked to the authors...but different...

Through the Wisdom of God (who is inseparable from God), Humanity has been created and sustained...even as we are tranformed from glory to glory...victorious amid PAIN...GLORIFIED into new DIVINE existence and our true CALLING: the EMBRACE of LOVE with the GROUND OF OUR BEING!

Beautiful.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

Post Edited (Exousia) : 1/20/2007 5:57:57 PM (GMT-6)

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One Love
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   Posted 1/20/2007 6:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. "

--------------------

"Therefore say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.'

"They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God."


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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One Love
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   Posted 1/21/2007 10:29 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm insatiably curious.

What do you ladies and gentlemen think about my ideas?

Are they crazy? Nonsensical? Delusional?

Or do they seem to make sense of some things for the first time?

Things make sense to me.

But there's a thin (non-existent?) line between perceived genius and genuine insanity.

Who knows where I am?

Let me know.

Holla back.

:-)


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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Similitude
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   Posted 1/21/2007 12:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes, indeed, D! The goal of sanctification is perfect love. Ephesians and Timothy say the same, pretty much explicitly, if I remember. But since we have an eschatological role, love serves subordinate temporal ends in addition to the sheer personal pleasure it occasions for God in personal relationship with us.

1) It shows the world what God is like--this produces revelatory glory for God.

2) It serves as an indicator, to some, that we are walking in the truth, which in turn reveals that Christ is the WAY to the Father.

3) The sufferings we joyfully experience in our love fits us for our eschatological reign with Christ.

I'm sure there are more. But each of these, though having a temporal role in the eschatological/temporal purpose of creation, find their ground in the essentially loving/relational nature of God. And until we have the full mind and character of Christ, we can still do and experience love in less than perfect ways. But our peace is grounded in God's competence to complete in us what He started: There truly is an expiration date for the sufferings entailed in the eschatological/temporal ends of creation, while the joy abides forever in LOVE.

When we can conceptually distinguish the eschatological from the essential perspectives of love, we can see CLEARLY how the essential was grounding the eschatological all along. All is coherent, producing that sound/healthy mind Paul spoke of:

For God has not given us a Spirit of cowardice, but of POWER, and LOVE, and a SOUND MIND.

Verses like these were always inspiring to me. But once they can be taken in fully with the understanding of God's ESSENTIAL loving/relational character, they are all the more profound and inspiring. God doesn't allow suffering SO THAT He can be glorified (though He will BE glorified). God allows suffering AS THE MOST FITTING/EFFECTUAL/EFFICIENT MEANS (given the requisite conditions of the eschatological end of creation) to OUR HIGHEST GOOD! This understanding TRULY has the potential to cast out all fear!!! There is no room for despair and doubt so long as the profound and glorious COHERENCE of it all is paramount in our minds and heart.


 

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One Love
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   Posted 1/21/2007 2:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So nice, we have to say it twice...

"When we can conceptually distinguish the eschatological from the essential perspectives of love, we can see CLEARLY how the essential was grounding the eschatological all along. All is coherent, producing that sound/healthy mind Paul spoke of:

For God has not given us a Spirit of cowardice, but of POWER, and LOVE, and a SOUND MIND.

Verses like these were always inspiring to me. But once they can be taken in fully with the understanding of God's ESSENTIAL loving/relational character, they are all the more profound and inspiring. God doesn't allow suffering SO THAT He can be glorified (though He will BE glorified). God allows suffering AS THE MOST FITTING/EFFECTUAL/EFFICIENT MEANS (given the requisite conditions of the eschatological end of creation) to OUR HIGHEST GOOD! This understanding TRULY has the potential to cast out all fear!!! There is no room for despair and doubt so long as the profound and glorious COHERENCE of it all is paramount in our minds and heart.


Amen, man. Amen.


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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might-be-don
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   Posted 1/22/2007 9:29 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
All of this is the kernel that "name it and claim it" was built on. We ARE the SONS of God !

They took the path that led to la-la land when they claimed that NO suffering existed on the path. Well dude, look around you. I can see them with eyes shut, hands over their ears, and saying la-la-la-la-la to drown out the noise of suffering all around them.

We always need to remember we reach out, not down, to those around us. We are the same.

peace, don


The world's perfect, wouldn't change a thing.
 

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One Love
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   Posted 1/22/2007 9:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don:
We are the same.

Man, I'm convinced of something.

If Christians were to be more NON-DUALISTIC about things...

spend more time in BOTH/AND rather than EITHER/OR...

who knows where the world would be now.

Seriously.

:-)


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
 
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
 
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."

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