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Tom
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   Posted 4/26/2007 11:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I was reading Tom Morris (who did the Idiot’s Guide to Philosophy) today. In his chapter on what a person is, he gets into “mind” and, of course, the mind/body problem and the various solutions (monism vs dualism, idealism vs materialsm) that have been given. But he asks an interesting question: Can our minds communicate to other minds independent of physical means of communication? You know, ESP.

 

Morris tells an interesting story about an event that deeply affected him. He was teaching philosophy at Duke at the time. He decided to try an experiment with his ten year old daughter, Sara. He took a deck of Uno cards that are, as you know, divided evenly into four colors. He would pick a card, look at it and then think hard on its color, actually try to project the color in his mind to his daughter, who was to think hard on what color the card was.

 

He picks the first card and thinks on it. She gets it right. The second. She gets it right. She gets the third right. Then she gets the fourth wrong. He asks, “Was the color you guessed the first color that impressed your mind?” “No,” she said, “it was…” and she named the correct color. “OK,” Tom said, “just go with your first impression.”

 

She correctly named the next 20 colors in a row.

 

Morris decided to change the rules. He decided to pick a card and NOT look at it. He would just place the card face down on the back of her neck. She would guess, and then he would look to see if she got it right.

 

After 38 correct guesses in a row, Mrs. Morris demanded that they come to dinner.

 

Anybody care to calculate the odds of 20 (really 24) + 38, or 62 correct guesses in a row? There are four possible colors for each guess.

 

What I'm more interested in is this--does anybody here think 62 correct guesses in a row is PURELY coincidental (that is, no real mental causation is responsible for the event)?

 

Tom


 

Post Edited (TGB) : 4/26/2007 11:36:45 PM (GMT-5)

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Tom
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   Posted 4/27/2007 2:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I also ran accross a story I hadn't heard before. J. B. Philips, translator of the J. B. Philips New Testament (a nice read if you've never read his translation before), had translated only the letters of Paul and stopped his work. He was struggling in his faith and, greatly depressed, locked himself in his chambers, ate little, and questioned his calling.

It so happens that Philips and C. S. Lewis were close friends. As Philips tells the story (this would be November 1963, the 23rd), C. S. Lewis appeared to him in his room, and not ghostly or ephemeral, but healthy and solid looking, as if there physically. Lewis spoke one sentence to his friend Philips, "J. B., it's not as difficult as you think," and then disappeared as suddenly as he had appeared. Philips snapped out of his depression...of course! He left his room and only then discovered that Lewis had died only moments earlier.

Come on people. Strrrreeetch your minds.

Tom


 

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 4/27/2007 8:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And the point was???


Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.

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Sahid
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   Posted 4/27/2007 9:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The odds are 1 out of 4 to the 62nd power. Or 1 out of a 2 with 37 zeros after it. One out of a trillion trillion trillion.

1/21000000000000000000000000000000000000

This being a coincidence is almost statistically impossible. But if such an experiement could be repeated under good experimental controls I would imagine someone would have done so already and it would be pretty big news.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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Tom
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   Posted 4/27/2007 10:03 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Morris' point was to illustrate the possibility of answering yes to the question, Can minds influence or communicate to other minds independently of physical means of communication? A yes answer would, I suppose, constitute an argument against materialism.

Tom


 

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One Love
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   Posted 4/27/2007 10:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Read this:
 
 
Card catalog description
In this book, David Ray Griffin, best known for his work on the problem of evil, turns his attention to the even more controversial topic of parapsychology. Griffin examines why scientists, philosophers, and theologians have held parapsychology in disdain and argues that neither a priori philosophical attacks nor wholesale rejection of the evidence can withstand scrutiny. After articulating a constructive postmodern philosophy that allows the parapsychological evidence to be taken seriously. Griffin examines this evidence extensively. He identifies four types of repeatable phenomena that suggest the reality of extrasensory perception and psychokinesis. Then, on the basis of a nondualistic distinction between mind and brain, which makes the idea of life after death conceivable, he examines five types of evidence for the reality of life after death: messages from mediums; apparitions; cases of the possession type; cases of the reincarnation type; and out-of-body experiences. His philosophical and empirical examinations of these phenomena suggest that they provide support for a postmodern spirituality that overcomes the thinness of modern religion without returning to supernaturalism.
 
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It was through Doc's work that I got interested in process philosophy at all. I'm really glad that I did.
 
Griffin talks about the possibility of subjective immortality.


"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,  that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.  I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One—  I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete Unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 4/27/2007 10:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would assume that it would mean an argument against materialism. But I would also assume that it would mean that Las Vegas would be bankrupt as well.


Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.

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Tom
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   Posted 4/27/2007 11:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is 'subjective immortatlity', the standard process view of the final state for human beings, your view, One?

Tom


 

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One Love
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   Posted 4/27/2007 11:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, the more "standard" process view is objective immortality. But people like Griffin and Suchocki hold to subjective immortality. I do too.

Charles Hartshorne And Subjective Immortality
by Marjorie Suchocki
www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2832


"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,  that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.  I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One—  I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete Unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

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Tom
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   Posted 4/27/2007 12:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My bad. Got it turned around!

Tom


 

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 4/27/2007 7:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice avatars! LOL...I can see the significance in both...lol...


Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.

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