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One Love
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Posted 6/12/2007 7:00 PM (GMT -6)

From home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/grace3.html

-------------------------

The Process of Theosis

God has predestined all the elect to divinization. Theosis is not a special achievement for a "chosen elite", nor does it involve participation in arcane rituals or reception of secret gnosis. There is nothing occult about our divinization; it is simply salvation in full bloom, the natural culmination of our life in Christ.

Divinization begins at Baptism, when God-as-Uncreated Grace elevates the soul by means of sanctifying grace, making her a partaker in the divine nature. The devout soul will grow in grace and deepen her relationship with God through prayer, the Mass, fasting, alsmgiving, works of mercy, devout use of sacramentals, etc. If she practices contemplative prayer she may experience a foretaste of theosis in the "unitive state", the highest state of prayer and the closest one can come to full divinization in this life.

Yet even the unitive state cannot compare with the Beatific Vision, the immediate knowledge of God which the angels and saints enjoy in heaven, and which we may enjoy, God willing, if we persevere in Grace. Since creatures cannot naturally contemplate Divinity, God elevates our minds by means of the light of glory and then unites our elevated intellects directly to the Divine Nature, so that we may see God "face-to-face".

Our intimate union with God will enable us to participate to a limited degree in God's own Knowledge of creation. We will perceive in God the mysteries of the faith, the divine plan for our salvation, and the lives of our loved ones on earth. We, like the rest of the saints, will be able to hear any prayers they address to us and can pray for their needs. And since our divinized wills will be in perfect conformity with the Will of God, we will pray according to God's will for them (I John 5:14-15).

Since the divinized always act according to God's will, their actions are not merely their own, for God works in them "both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). Thus their actions have a certain "divine" quality. Even as "the actions of Christ are both divine and human, theandric actions, so those of the just man are Godlike, performed at once by God and by man" 15.

(This does not mean that God overrides or replaces the creature's will, as the Quietists thought. It means that the will of a divinized person submits to and perfectly conforms to the Divine Will. It still exists and acts; the Divine Will neither annihilates nor renders it passive. Nor does the limited participation in God's Knowledge make the creature omniscient, for it is only a partial participation. A divinized soul only comprehends that which pertains to herself and to her place in the Divine Plan; the infinite Mystery of God's Nature remains incomprehensible to her finite mind.)

The deified soul is filled with God, permeated with Divine Light, Life, Power, Glory and Love. Yet no confusion or change occcurs between her created substance and the Uncreated Substance of God.Though in intimate contact they remain distinct, so that the creature may enjoy the Beauty of God without the violation of her nature or selfhood.

The Church Fathers compared theosis to the casting of metal in a furnace. As the metal will take on the color and heat of the fire while remaining metal, so the divinized soul radiates the Glory of God and resembles the Holy One as closely as a creature possibly can, yet she remains a creature, essentially distinct in both nature and person.

But theosis will not only affect the soul. At the resurrection the divinized soul will rejoin her former body which, now glorified and incorruptable, will be divinized with the soul and both will enjoy the bliss of Heaven forever.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

PotOnWheel
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Posted 6/13/2007 8:34 AM (GMT -6)

Trying--unsuccessfully-to avoid things that sound really, really unfamiliar to the evengelical ear...BUT striving to place those things practical and easily appreciated to a spot on the table here...

Degrees of theoria

http://www.vic.com/~tscon/pelagia/htm/b05.en.the_illness_and_cure_of_the_soul.04.htm#kno4

-A few days ago you mentioned that theoria has many degrees; noetic prayer is only one of its first stages and there is always an evolution. Can you analyse this more for us?

-St.Gregory Palamas distinguishes (1) illumination, (2) theoria-vision of God and (3) constant theoria of God, which may last for a few hours, days or even weeks. St.Maximos the Confessor teaches that the knowledge of the causes of beings -which occurs at the stage of illumination consists in the theoria of the uncreated providential energy of God. Many Fathers, also, say that repentance is inspired by the Comforter. It is only through repentance that we are granted to see our spiritual desolation, our passions, and start struggling against them. At this point I would like to refer to the eight levels of spiritual theoria, according to St.Peter Damascene.

The f i r s t theoria is the knowledge of the afflictions and temptations of life. It is when man realises the beneficial presence of God and His blessedness in temptations. The s e c o n d theoria is the knowledge of the benefactions of God and the awareness of our sins and passions. The t h i r d theoria is the knowledge of the sufferings awaiting for us before and after death. The f o u r t h theoria is the understanding of the life of Christ before the Passions and of the Resurrection as well as the real knowledge of the words and deeds of all the Saints and martyrs. The f i f t h theoria is the knowledge of the nature and flux of things. The s i x t h theoria is the theoria of beings. It is the knowledge of the uncreated providential energy of God which maintains and enlivens creatures. The s e v e n t h theoria is perceiving the angels which are the noetic creatures of God. Finally the e i g h t h theoria is the theoria-vision of God, the knowledge of God which is called theology. St.Peter Damascene says that the first three theoriae are of the man of praxis (action), that is, of him who is at the stage of purification. The other five are theoriae of man who is at the illumination of the nous. The eighth is the theoria of the age to come and belongs actually to the age to come, but some people are granted to enjoy it in betrothal even in this life.

-Therefore, theoria develops. The more man progresses in his spiritual life, the more he ascends the stages of spiritual perfection, the more he obtains higher theoria of God and, consequently, knowledge of God, said Irene. Does this evolution ever cease?

-Spiritual life is not static, but dynamic. St.Maximos speaks of the "ever-moving cessation" and the "standing motion". St.Gregory of Nyssa teaches that virtue has no limit. And naturally, when he speaks of virtues he does not mean human deeds, which are natural virtues, but the fruits of the Most Holy Spirit, which are the result of man's communion with God. Perfection, says St.Gregory of Nyssa, has no boundaries. For virtue has only one condition, that it has no limits. Man is continually perfected and there is no end to this perfection. This will also continue in the life to come. There will be continuous progress for the man who has entered the stage of purification and illumination. St.Gregory of Nyssa points out that participation in the divine good becomes richer and fuller and it continually increases "him who is fed by it and this increase never ceases". St.Gregory the Sinaite says that in the age to come the angels and Saints "shall not ever cease advancing in grace". St.John the Sinaite teaches the same thing. He says that the good workers progress from the power of practical life (i.e. stage of purification) to the power of theoria and since love never ends its limit is unlimited. The progress of the good workers shall never cease, "receiving Light upon Light". St.Gregory brings as an example the noetic angelic powers, who always receive glory upon glory and knowledge in addition to their knowledge. This ceaseless perfection takes place not only in the present life, but also in the age to come. Asking whether the Saints will infinitely advance in theoria in the future age, St.Gregory Palamas gives himself the answer: "It is obvious that they infinitely will". Thus, the people of God constantly develop. They grow in spiritual life. There is never an end to this development and theoria. Man can never reach the perfection of Christ. This is evident even in the terms which are used in the Holy Scripture: The term "in the image" signifies something static, whereas a continuous evolution is implied by the phrase "in the likeness". When we live in the Orthodox tradition, we cannot ever come to a stand still, because this leads us to pietism. The knowledge and experience of tradition begets humility, but also progress in spiritual life.

-However, why has all of this tradition, which you develop for us here, been lost? asked Basil. Why have we come to be unaware of essential elements in our Christian life? Why is this "maternal language" of our Church not spoken today? Why have we lost the living patristic word? I understand, as the time goes by and the conversation unfolds, that this is the real Orthodox life. Only in this way can we understand that the Church is not a religious organisation, but a living organism, which enlivens man and makes him a member of the Body of Christ. Thus we realise that Christ is the life of people. Christ is the life of the world and of people, because He heals man and helps him pass the stages of perfection. Why, I repeat, have we lost this tradition?

Can everyone join in this discussion, gathering around the words "Purification," "illumination," and "theosis"; as indicators of progressive and dynamic development?

(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 6/13/2007 9:56:31 AM (GMT-5)

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 11:32 AM (GMT -6)

The eighth is the theoria of the age to come and belongs actually to the age to come, but some people are granted to enjoy it in betrothal even in this life.

Do we even really believe this is possible for ANYONE, B? Really?

Isn't THIS the "pearl of great price" that we should be after?

The righteous reward of seeking God with all of one's heart?

I think so...but...

When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith on the earth?

When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in their own towns and in their own homes are prophets without honor."

And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Maybe we don't see this stuff more often...because it no longer lies within our "plausibility structures" of what human life can be like.

Maybe.

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 11:35 AM (GMT -6)

What's cool is that the metaphysic we've been working with allows for this stuff perfectly. The idea of progressive, dynamic perfection...or perfection AS process.

Ha!

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 11:40 AM (GMT -6)

Again, like you said before, POW...

Only GOD-SEERS can be true theologians!

Wise words, homie.

"Finally the e i g h t h theoria is the theoria-vision of God, the knowledge of God which is called theology."

-------------------

"Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they KNOW you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

PotOnWheel
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Posted 6/13/2007 11:55 AM (GMT -6)

UNISON said...
What's cool is that the metaphysic we've been working with allows for this stuff perfectly. The idea of progressive, dynamic perfection...or perfection AS process.

Ha!

Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya. Told ya.

cheers

(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 6/13/2007 12:01:08 PM (GMT-5)

PotOnWheel
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Posted 6/13/2007 12:00 PM (GMT -6)

UNISON said...
Do we even really believe this is possible for ANYONE, B? Really?

Here's where I can identify, and begin:

...knowledge of the afflictions and temptations of life.

As I look at the others I can clearly see that none of them is conceivable without this first one. One at a time:

The f i r s t theoria is the knowledge of the afflictions and temptations of life. It is when man realises the beneficial presence of God and His blessedness in temptations. The s e c o n d theoria is the knowledge of the benefactions of God and the awareness of our sins and passions. The t h i r d theoria is the knowledge of the sufferings awaiting for us before and after death. The f o u r t h theoria is the understanding of the life of Christ before the Passions and of the Resurrection as well as the real knowledge of the words and deeds of all the Saints and martyrs. The f i f t h theoria is the knowledge of the nature and flux of things. The s i x t h theoria is the theoria of beings. It is the knowledge of the uncreated providential energy of God which maintains and enlivens creatures. The s e v e n t h theoria is perceiving the angels which are the noetic creatures of God. Finally the e i g h t h theoria is the theoria-vision of God, the knowledge of God which is called theology. St.Peter Damascene says that the first three theoriae are of the man of praxis (action), that is, of him who is at the stage of purification. The other five are theoriae of man who is at the illumination of the nous. The eighth is the theoria of the age to come and belongs actually to the age to come, but some people are granted to enjoy it in betrothal even in this life.

(o)

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 1:39 PM (GMT -6)

Excellent, POW.

THIS is why some areas of the Church needs a deep theology of suffering.

----------------

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. Those who doubt should not think they will receive anything from the Lord; they are double-minded and unstable in all they do.

Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.

Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each of you is tempted when you are dragged away by your own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

-----------------------------

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

---------------------------

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if any of you do not have them, you are nearsighted and blind, and you have forgotten that you have been cleansed from your past sins.

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

-----------------

It's all right there.

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

The CROWN OF LIFE is for those that ENDURE by God's Grace...

One Love
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Posted 6/13/2007 1:47 PM (GMT -6)

Love ya, B. Lots, man!

Thanks for all the mind-opening resources and conversation.

One Love
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Posted 6/14/2007 9:58 AM (GMT -6)

Sorry I'm so on this. Tons of good stuff here.

From www.orthodox.net/gleanings/theosis.html

'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."
--St. Simeon the New Theologian (Practical and Theological Precepts no. 94, Writings from the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart; Faber and Faber pgs. 118-199)

Who is St. Simeon?

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symeon_the_New_Theologian ...

Symeon the New Theologian (949–1022) is one of three saints of the Eastern Orthodox church to have been given the title of Theologian (the others are St. John the Apostle and St. Gregory Nazianzen). Born in Galatia and educated at Constantinople, he became abbot of the monastery of St. Mamas.

St. Symeon was a poet who embodied the mystical tradition. He wrote that humans could experience God directly. His works influenced the hesychastic controversy of the 14th century

Well, Tom?

One Love
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:00 AM (GMT -6)

There's church HISTORY behind this, for crying out loud!

BBBCanada
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:03 AM (GMT -6)

Small "g."

Brandon

It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.

One Love
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:13 AM (GMT -6)

Well, if the GOAL is for us to be "gods" (small "g"

)...

...why do we still settle for the straight up worldliness (running after daily needs and wealth like pagans, consumerism, etc) that is within much American evangelicalism...just because we have some silly subculture going?

We're missing the whole friggin point.

Tom
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:18 AM (GMT -6)

Unison: Well, if the GOAL is for us to be "gods" (small "g"...)...

Tom: I reeeeally think you're trying to get out of Jesus' use of Ps. 82 (in Jn 10) metaphysical conclusions that, well, don't necessarily follow from either Ps. 82 or Jesus. I don't see how "god" in those passages HAS to mean "divine being."

Tom

One Love
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:23 AM (GMT -6)

Dude,

You are missing the point. If the WHOLE GOAL of the spiritual life is to become a FULL TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, thereby being a vessel where God continually and permenantly resides...

why does American evangelicalism waste some of the time and resources in such WORLDLY ways that continue to socialize Christians into worldliness...and not think a thing about it?

We're supposed to be elevating to "godhood" in Christ...and we settle for being CEOS and Civil Service People for Jesus.

Hmmm...

BBBCanada
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Posted 6/14/2007 10:32 AM (GMT -6)

I still don't see the point. I understand your complaint? I agree with it? But I don't see the connection. Being a small "g" as I think of it doesn't negate being the temple of God.

Brandon

It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.

PotOnWheel
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Posted 6/14/2007 11:44 AM (GMT -6)

MANY said...
I don't see how "god" in those passages HAS to mean "divine being."

But from other passages you can state that God created us with the given task of becoming "divinized" persons -- persons who partake by grace of the nature of God through Christ.

(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 6/14/2007 11:52:27 AM (GMT-5)

PotOnWheel
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Posted 6/14/2007 11:49 AM (GMT -6)

Here's something starting at the beginning:

http://www.ancientfaithradio.com/specials/allsaints/

Priority, Obedience and the Physical Nature of Salvation

Friday, June 08, 2007 -- Fr. Pat Reardon

GO AHEAD AND PRESS THE ARROW BUTTON!

(o)

Tom
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Total Posts : 10353

Posted 6/14/2007 4:39 PM (GMT -6)

Unison: Well, if the GOAL is for us to be "gods" (small "g"...)...

Tom: I think you're trying to get out of Jesus' use of Ps. 82 (in Jn 10) metaphysical conclusions that don't follow from Ps. 82 and Jn. 10. I don't see how "god" in those passages HAS to mean "divine being."

Unison: You are missing the point. If the WHOLE GOAL of the spiritual life is to become a FULL TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, thereby being a vessel where God continually and permenantly resides...

Tom: I can agree that this is the whole goal and still argue that this doesn’t make us “gods” or “divine beings.” Why do you keep saying it does when it clearly doesn’t have to? What’s motivating your preoccupation with describing our being a “temple of the Spirit in which God resides” with our “being gods”?

Unison: …why does American evangelicalism waste some of the time and resources in such WORLDLY ways that continue to socialize Christians into worldliness...and not think a thing about it?

Tom: How does the answer to this have anything to do with the academic question of why becoming “gods” or “divine beings” is something created finite beings like ourselves by definition cannot become?

Unison: We're supposed to be elevating to "godhood" in Christ...and we settle for being CEOS and Civil Service People for Jesus.

Tom: Why do you see our eschatological end in such stark either/or options? Either “elevated into godhood” (something I’d never say we become, though I’m not sure what “elevated” means here) OR “Civil Service People for Jesus” (a kind of sub-par and a not really glorified status)? Is there nothing in between? Is there no final state for human beings that we can rightly call glorified while also saying human beings aren't divine?

Tom

One Love
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Posted 6/15/2007 7:09 AM (GMT -6)

WONDERFUL sermon, B. I'd really like to meet Fr. Reardon.

He describes the "unbelieving heart" beautifully...

To me, he's talking about unconditional submission/obedience to God, undergirded by a dispositional orientation of humble trust in God.

Post Edited (UNISON) : 6/15/2007 7:40:50 AM (GMT-5)

One Love
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Posted 6/15/2007 7:29 AM (GMT -6)

Tom,

There is some kind of reason that you don't want to refer to human beings as "gods" just in general, even if it's legitimate, Christianly speaking. And I don't think it can be about the metaphysics. What's up, man? Does this just feel uncomfortable for you? Would you rather we just use the word "divinized human being" or something like that instead of "god (with a little "g"

? What would help you?

One Love
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Posted 6/15/2007 7:34 AM (GMT -6)

And Tom, you know this is far from merely academic to me. It's real life.

The Real.

One Love
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Posted 6/15/2007 8:13 AM (GMT -6)

Two words.

Meister Eckhart.

Read this.

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