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Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 2/9/2004 10:58 AM (GMT -6)

I saw the movie The Butterfly Effect yesterday and I thought it was interesting in its concept. Granted I can't stand Ashton Kutcher because he always acts so dorky all the time, but in this movie he acted serious because of the serious subject matter.

Anyway, I thought the whole idea of one small thing affecting larger ones was intriguing. The movie began with a quote that said something to the effect of, "Something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wings can cause a hurricane on the other side of the world. - Chaos Theory."

To me this movie was sort of like It's a Wonderful Life only in a negative way, because Kutcher's character kept going back to his childhood and trying to change things so that the bad things wouldn't happen and so that the future would be better. But, the future did not turn out better - in fact it often times came out worse, but I can't go into that without giving away too much of the plot.

I thought that whole idea was interesting because you see how others' free-will determines the outcome of most events, no matter how hard one might try to change things by oneself. I thought this was an interesting study in predestination vs. free will and with the exception that I don't approve of having children act out some of the more violent scenes in this movie, and having them use foul language, and there being a couple of nude scenes, it was an otherwise fairly good movie to see. It has a lot of heavy subject matter though, so it's not for the faint of heart.

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

Laplace
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138

Posted 2/10/2004 4:04 AM (GMT -6)

Just FYI, I believe the title "The Butterfly Effect" (didn't see the movie) was taken from the Fantasy/Sci-Fi story written by Ray Bradbury titled "The Sound of Thunder". Basically, this company allowed you to go back in time to hunt dinosaurs, but only those that were going to die anyway. Unfortunately, one group of hunters accidently killed a butterfly, and as a result, changed the culture of the day as well as the present day's election.

Chaos Theory in a mathematical sense essentially says that small changes in your intitial conditions can radically affect the outcome of your functions (haunting memories of Math 405 coming back).

The basic question is what decisions/events affect things in the future and what doesn't. In theory, such a minor thing as what restaurant to eat at can be life changing down the road. Because if that is where you met your future spouse, and therefore had children, who then,...

Perhaps the point of it all is to realize that each of us have significance and impact in this world whether we are aware of it or not. In addition, God is in fact involved in everything we do--it may not have effects we see or understand, but I personally believe that everything God allows has a specific purpose. Just watch the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" for a reinforcement of this.

"I say we blast the meatbag, Master" -HK-47, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 2/11/2004 12:45 AM (GMT -6)

Take the butterfly affect, introduce the concept of free will among humans and angels...

and you now can understand why we experience life as a flux of aribrary ripples. The arbitrariness isn't abotu God's character or purpose, but about the unfathomable interrelated complexity of the world.

this is the central thesis of Is God to Blame?

Greg

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 2/11/2004 4:16 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by GregBoyd

this is the central thesis of Is God to Blame?

Hi Greg,

Welcome home.

One question, How do I explain the ongoing faithfulness of God in my life? I mean, I really do count on God, ya know. I feel like we have a relationship, I trust Him and He has shown Himself trustworthy. Am i above the arbitrariness of the world when I just count on Him and He follows through? how is it that I'm experiencing Him this way consistently?

Is this what we call luck?

You're so patient with me.....ha :)

"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."

Scout Cloud Lee

quest for truth
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479

Posted 2/11/2004 2:05 PM (GMT -6)

While you're waiting for Doc's reply, Selah, I will agree with you that you have been blessed. From the little bit I know of you God truly has blessed you more than most people I know. Praise God for the blessings he has bestowed upon you. King

Why do some people get the blessings and some experience the pain? Why is life so unfair? Praise God for those who are blessed but I encounter so many that are not. Sometimes I wonder why? Black Eye

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 2/11/2004 3:46 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Quest,

Thanks for your comments. Do I know you? If not, don't you think I've gone a little off the deep end here? Wink

I tell ya, people sure put up with a lot when wannabe theologians start stretching their minds...

blessings and love,
selah

quest for truth
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479

Posted 2/11/2004 5:20 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Do I know you?

Can't say if you do. I have an idea of who you are and have read your posts.

quote:
If not, don't you think I've gone a little off the deep end here?

I tell ya, people sure put up with a lot when wannabe theologians start stretching their minds...

You're doing a great job! It's great to expand out thoughts and stretch our minds

I just had tossed my post in here because this really is something I wonder quite a bit about. Why is it that some people are blessed beyond measure while others struggle just to take their next breath? Ya know what I mean Shy

BTW, Selah, I want to express to you how cool I think it is that you end your posts to people (for the most part at least) with the salutation of blessings and love. Cool

We all need as much love and blessing as we can receive!

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 2/12/2004 2:36 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by quest for truth

[quote]
BTW, Selah, I want to express to you how cool I think it is that you end your posts to people (for the most part at least) with the salutation of blessings and love. We all need as much love and blessing as we can receive!

Thanks QFT. There's a story behind the love thing...
Not only does it remind me that I really DO love (agape) this person I'm talking to, its also a strategy for me to get used to hearing it outloud. See, we live in a world where 4 letter words are common. They hardly have any shock value left because they are status quo for us in this fallen world. Love, however, (like Jesus) is still shocking to us when we hear it. Therefore, in a way I am re-pioneering (if there is such a thing) the word love... or at least trying to.

Crazy??

LOVE
selah

1Heart
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128

Posted 2/15/2004 11:29 PM (GMT -6)

(Laplace said)

"Perhaps the point of it all is to realize that each of us have significance and impact in this world whether we are aware of it or not. In addition, God is in fact involved in everything we do--it may not have effects we see or understand, but I personally believe that everything God allows has a specific purpose. Just watch the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" for a reinforcement of this."

Hello Laplace,

I was going to go and see "The Butterfly Effect" because I had read a little about chaos theory and was interested in that subject. I heard it was a disturbing movie so I passed. "Is God To Blame?" actually inspired me to do a message on suffering. I loved the book and it broadened my horizons. It impressed upon me even more the reality of my moral and spiritual "say so" in prayer and the ever deepening awareness that "choice by choice I affect eternity." I believe that with all my heart. I also believe that as we become more aware of the cosmic war that we are caught up in, that we become more aware of our responsibility in it, or rather our priviledge. What an honour it is to fight alongside the King of Glory!

God Bless,
Jo-Anne

"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."

quest for truth
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479

Posted 2/15/2004 11:57 PM (GMT -6)

Laplace

quote:
The basic question is what decisions/events affect things in the future and what doesn't. In theory, such a minor thing as what restaurant to eat at can be life changing down the road.

Doc

quote:
Take the butterfly affect, introduce the concept of free will among humans and angels...

and you now can understand why we experience life as a flux of aribrary ripples. The arbitrariness isn't abotu God's character or purpose, but about the unfathomable interrelated complexity of the world.

this is the central thesis of Is God to Blame?

Jo-Anne

quote:
It impressed upon me even more the reality of my moral and spiritual "say so" in prayer and the ever deepening awareness that "choice by choice I affect eternity." I believe that with all my heart. I also believe that as we become more aware of the cosmic war that we are caught up in, that we become more aware of our responsibility in it, or rather our priviledge. What an honour it is to fight alongside the King of Glory!

This is making even more sense than ever before for me. Tigress, thank you for starting this thread -- now I will have to go to the movie. I also need to read the book Is God To Blame? Thanks everyone! You may not know this but your thoughts have helped me in my process of pain and blessing... It's reinforced the urgency for prayer.

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 2/16/2004 4:37 AM (GMT -6)

I should read the book Is God To Blame? as well.

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

PhilTheThrill
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 95

Posted 2/19/2004 8:26 AM (GMT -6)

I really enjoyed "The Butterfly Effect" and it was a movie that really makes you think about your own life.

I think there were a couple important messages:
1) There is no "perfect life" where everything always works out.
2) Your choices are infinitely important, so choose wisely.
3) The object of life is to move forward, not look behind and wonder what might have been.

All in all, it was an original concept and I think it had a powerful, and thought-provoking message, which is all but unheard of in hollywood these days.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 9/1/2004 12:53 PM (GMT -6)

I don't think the movie stresses free-will.

It more stresses how outside, catastrophic events ultimately shape our development in life. Like how the brother of Ashton's love-interest became a psycho or a born-again believer based on a particular event.

And ultimately, the only control that Ashton's character has over the chain of events is his ability to end his life, *****spoilers**** in the case of the movie right before he was ever born. The movie even indicates that this happened for two still-born brothers and sisters before-hand. It seems we really don't have the basis for affecting things for good and when we do altruistic self-sacrificing acts, we are too selfish to accept the negative consequences for ourselves.

It really is a thought-provoking and disturbing movie, but it is worth seeing.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

Laplace
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138

Posted 9/2/2004 6:34 AM (GMT -6)

I actually saw the director's cut ending on DVD which was much less tragic and seemed to make more sense.

"I say we blast the meatbag, Master" -HK-47, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 9/2/2004 10:01 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

I don't think the movie stresses free-will.

It more stresses how outside, catastrophic events ultimately shape our development in life. Like how the brother of Ashton's love-interest became a psycho or a born-again believer based on a particular event.

And ultimately, the only control that Ashton's character has over the chain of events is his ability to end his life, *****spoilers**** in the case of the movie right before he was ever born. The movie even indicates that this happened for two still-born brothers and sisters before-hand. It seems we really don't have the basis for affecting things for good and when we do altruistic self-sacrificing acts, we are too selfish to accept the negative consequences for ourselves.

It really is a thought-provoking and disturbing movie, but it is worth seeing.

dlw

Huh? I saw the movie in the theatre when it first came out and that's not how it ended. **SPOILER ALERT!** He prevented the chaos by going back to the moment when he first met the girl and acted mean to her so she would never become his friend in the first place, thus preventing what happened to all four of them originally.

Did they change the ending on the DVD? What a stupid thing to do!

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 9/2/2004 1:15 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Tigress

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

I don't think the movie stresses free-will.

It more stresses how outside, catastrophic events ultimately shape our development in life. Like how the brother of Ashton's love-interest became a psycho or a born-again believer based on a particular event.

And ultimately, the only control that Ashton's character has over the chain of events is his ability to end his life, *****spoilers**** in the case of the movie right before he was ever born. The movie even indicates that this happened for two still-born brothers and sisters before-hand. It seems we really don't have the basis for affecting things for good and when we do altruistic self-sacrificing acts, we are too selfish to accept the negative consequences for ourselves.

It really is a thought-provoking and disturbing movie, but it is worth seeing.

dlw

Huh? I saw the movie in the theatre when it first came out and that's not how it ended. **SPOILER ALERT!** He prevented the chaos by going back to the moment when he first met the girl and acted mean to her so she would never become his friend in the first place, thus preventing what happened to all four of them originally.

Did they change the ending on the DVD? What a stupid thing to do!

I guess they did change the movie. Sounds like they hollywoodized it, earlier.
dlw

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