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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/12/2007 5:00 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Watch these in order...
There are some "Christians" who are so afraid of interacting with the meditations of other religions.
Particularly Hinduism or Buddhism.
We have to be sure to "pray the right way" and all that...
And so afraid of people being too "one with God" in the wrong way.
Can't define yourself too much with God. That just won't work.
Some people even feel calling oneself a son of God can be "too arrogant" to say. (Believe me, it happens...)
It saddens me.
Deeply.
Oh well.
Maybe if I just "go to church" more, everything will be ok.
Just like in Moralton.
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.Post Edited (UNISON) : 7/12/2007 5:25:34 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/12/2007 5:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Om Mani Padme Hum
To those to whom this applies: At least read about it...before you declare it "demonic"
Please.
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 7/12/2007 7:05 AM (GMT -6) | | Vids aren't loading.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/12/2007 1:27 PM (GMT -6) | | The links work. Just tried em.
Here's a dandy...real life...
A blog response to the video...
Man, I know how this kid feels...
I got into a huge fight with my grandmother because she got mad when I told her that I decided to be agnostic (I was raised Catholic). I haven't talked to her for about a year and a half. Now, I've got my best friends mother arguing with me to apologize to my grandmother for what I "did".
It sucks being yelled at for your beliefs. Sure, she's his mother, and it might suck to hear your child doesn't believe in the same thing you do, but they're another living, breathing, thinking human being. They can have their own thoughts and beliefs.
I swear, every time I see this video, it really pisses me off...
Jesus was about teaching love and things of the sort, but is love yelling at your child for being atheist while you're Catholic, or whatever she was?
---------------------------
Believe it, Tom. 
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.Post Edited (UNISON) : 7/12/2007 4:17:23 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/12/2007 2:21 PM (GMT -6) | | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratitya-samutpada
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Dependent origination
The enlightenment (Bodhi) of the Buddha Gautama was simultaneously his liberation from suffering (dukkha) and his insight into the nature of the universe – particularly the nature of the lives of ‘sentient beings’ (principally humans and animals). What the Buddha awakened to (Bodhi means ‘to awaken’) was the truth of dependent origination.
This is the understanding that any phenomenon ‘exists’ only because of the ‘existence’ of other phenomena in an incredibly complex web of cause and effect covering time past, time present and time future. This concept of a web is symbolized by Indra's net, a multidimensional spider's web on which lies an infinite amount of dew drops or jewels, and in these are reflected the reflections of all the other drops of dew ad infinitum.
Stated in another way, everything depends on everything else. For example, a human being's existence in any given moment is dependent on the condition of everything else in the world (and indeed the universe) at that moment but, conversely, the condition of everything in the world in that moment depend in an equally significant way on the character and condition of that human being. Everything in the universe is interconnected through the web of cause and effect so that the whole and the parts are mutually interdependent. The character and condition of entities at any given time are intimately connected with the character and condition of all other entities that superficially may appear to be unconnected or unrelated.
Because all things are thus conditioned and transient (anicca), they have no real independent identity (anatta) so do not truly ‘exist’, though to ordinary minds this appears to be the case. All phenomena are therefore fundamentally insubstantial and ‘empty’ (sunya).
Wise human beings, who ‘see things as they are’ (yatha-bhuta-ñana-dassana), renounce attachment and clinging, transform the energy of desire into awareness and understanding, and eventually transcend the conditioned realm of form becoming Buddhas or Arhats.
--------------------------------
Devil speak. Just plain devil speak. Right? 
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 7/13/2007 8:22 AM (GMT -6) | |
D. said:
To those to whom this applies: At least read about it...before you declare it "demonic"
Please.
Ok darling friend of mine. I have just a moment to reply to this, so let's see what I can say here...okey dokey?
You know I AM Bible girl, right?
Then let me just ask you this, "why search other ways when there's so much to learn about being a christ follower?" I mean time is short! Shouldn't we spend as much time as possible searching the scriptures, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and singing spiritual songs (and outKast tunz!) and making melody with our hearts to the Lord (singular) first?????? If I quote GB and say "the only reality we have is the NOW moment"... then I just don't see a reason to fill up a NOW moment with this other stuff.
Do you? Really? If so, why???
Love ya,
T
Regarding it being demonic ...or evil... well, yeah, I DO think so. Maybe not if you're just reading/trying to get inspired to praise the Lord in a new way/researching/trying to understand etc. But otherwise, yeah.
ok. gotta run. Lemme have it ;)
...........but before I go, just a snippet from scripture, ok? ok. If it were me, I'd study the following verses extensively before sinking my teeth and heart into the stuff your suggesting. But that's just lil ol me  biblegurl
Luke 4:8
8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, `you shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"
Matthew 4:10
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, `you shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
"Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let {them} be heard from your mouth.
De 5:7
' You shall have no other gods before Me.
De 6:14
" You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
De 7:4
"For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.
De 8:19
"It shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you will surely perish.
De 11:16
" Beware that your hearts are not deceived, and that you do not turn away and serve other gods and worship them.
De 11:28 -
and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.
De 13:2
and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ' Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
De 13:6
" If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ' Let us go and serve other gods' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known,
De 13:7
of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end),
De 13:13
some worthless men have gone out from among you and have seduced the inhabitants of their city, saying, ' Let us go and serve other gods' (whom you have not known),
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/13/2007 10:32 AM (GMT -6) | | Amen, Selah.
God can save people outside of the reach of the Church, but does so only in the One Mediator, Christ. And does so only by the Spirit of truth and wisdom.
But for those who know the Scriptures and the Story and the Savior, our job is to be missionaries.
Preach Christ, not religion. But then don't get wrapped up with other religions either.
Honestly, if you are talking about a PERSON that has Budhist or Hindu background, then you are taking about getting THEM saved, not their philosophy!
Where's your head, D?
Get into them FLOWERS on the other thread.
And don't 'dis' my mentioning the worship of the Church as being prime knowledge-base, ether. <humph>
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/13/2007 12:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Regarding it being demonic ...or evil... well, yeah, I DO think so.
Did you read it, before coming to that conclusion? I'd like to know. What of the reading gave you the impressions that the mantra was demonic? I'm very interested!
By the way, there were a lot of scriptures that you had about "worshipping other gods" and all that. Who said anything about worshipping anyone? Do you believe that the mantra is about WORSHIP of Gautama or something like that? Hmmmm...
***************************
POW: (emphasis mine)
But for those who know the Scriptures and the Story and the Savior, our job is to be missionaries. Preach Christ, not religion. But then don't get wrapped up with other religions either. Honestly, if you are talking about a PERSON that has Budhist or Hindu background, then you are taking about getting THEM saved, not their philosophy!
Some people would disagree with your implicit missiology, B. But do you, man. 
**************************************
MBD:
Doesn't it make sense that there is only one God... the metaphors we use when talking about HIM are not nearly as important as HIM.
That's what I thought...but what do I know?
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 7/13/2007 5:37 PM (GMT -6) | | | I'm with you on this D. There is much to learn about being a follower of Christ and truth is truth. It doesn't matter who it comes from. Paul quotes from pagan poets just as he does from the O.T. to prove a theological point. In his speech in Athens to the Areopagus, Paul quotes from the Greek Stoic poets Cleanthes, Aratus and Epimenides ("As some of your poets have said..." Acts 17:28). In the same speech, Paul's comment that God intends people to "feel after him and find him" may allude to Homer, where the verb "feel after" is used to describe the groping of the blinded cyclops Polyphemus as he sought the entrance of his cave and to Plato, who uses the word in the Phaedo to describe man's guess at the truth.
In 1 Cor 15:32-33:
32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."
The "Bad company" part is from the play Thais by the Greek dramatist Menander.
In Titus it says:
12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons."
And then is followed by: "13This testimony is true."
So you are free to enjoy and be edified by works of art, science, philosophy, etc, regardless of where it has come from just as you are free to enjoy a hamburger made by some sinner at McDonalds.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 7/13/2007 5:49 PM (GMT -6) | | By the way, I don't get what's with putting a vid up about a kid who doesn't believe in God anymore.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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selah
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 7/14/2007 7:29 AM (GMT -6) | |
Hey D.
I shouldn't try to engage in dialoge about this because I don't have the time to devote to it. But anyway, justfor fun:
D: did you read it, before coming to that conclusion?
T: Yep.
D:What of the reading gave you the impressions that the mantra was demonic?
T: (first of all, did YOU read all of it?) Let's just start with the fact that it's a mantra at all.
- Mt. 6:7
- "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
T: If you read through the links, you'd see that its clearly about prayer...and worship! But that take a lot of time, so...
T: The main thing is not about weighing how demonic or evil it is, in my opinion. MY response to you, D. is about it being a waste of time!!!
For instance: "When the two disciples went to their lama to indicate they had finished the practice, he said, 'Oh, you've both done excellently. You were very diligent, and YOU were very wise. You both accomplished the one hundred million recitations of the mantra.' Thus, through changing our attitude and developing our understanding, practice becomes far more powerful." ...from your site (#2).
Ok so, my point is "can you think of anything better to do with your "now" moments than this?!?!?!" WHY read about it? Why think about it? Don't we have enough to do??? Prayer, not mantras, avail. I would rather use my time praying for something like Darfur in words to my father in heaven than repeat a mantra. Ask, seek, knock...don't use meaningless repition. That's what I'm trying to say... I think ;) Gottttttttta run!
love ya,
T
UNISON said...
Selah:
Regarding it being demonic ...or evil... well, yeah, I DO think so.
Did you read it, before coming to that conclusion? I'd like to know. What of the reading gave you the impressions that the mantra was demonic? I'm very interested!
By the way, there were a lot of scriptures that you had about "worshipping other gods" and all that. Who said anything about worshipping anyone? Do you believe that the mantra is about WORSHIP of Gautama or something like that? Hmmmm...
***************************
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/14/2007 7:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
T: (first of all, did YOU read all of it?) Let's just start with the fact that it's a mantra at all.
Mt. 6:7
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
and...emphasis mine...
Ok so, my point is "can you think of anything better to do with your "now" moments than this?!?!?!" WHY read about it? Why think about it? Don't we have enough to do??? Prayer, not mantras, avail. I would rather use my time praying for something like Darfur in words to my father in heaven than repeat a mantra. Ask, seek, knock...don't use meaningless repition.
Hmmmm...so repetion of phrases dealing with truth (in the form of mantras) are negative because of the "meaningless repetition", huh? That's interesting. The JESUS PRAYER (also called the PRAYER OF THE HEART) would be considered a "mantra" that some people have prayed at least hundreds of times a day or more! Is that "meaningless repetition"? I bet probably not because the word "Jesus" is in there, right? That would probably redeem the meaninglessness of THAT repetition because of that name, right?
But maybe even the Jesus prayer is not helpful because it doesn't specifically talk about things like Darfur. Hmm...
What do you think about the Jesus prayer and it's use, Selah?
************************************
Selah:
The main thing is not about weighing how demonic or evil it is, in my opinion. MY response to you, D. is about it being a waste of time!!!
How could you say it is a "waste of time" for a certain person when you have no idea whether or not 1) God may or may not be using that in the person's life at that time and 2) the mantra actually brings some people CLOSER to God (just like it may have been with Orel on the animation) ? If you don't know those things about the situation, wouldn't your assessment be an arbitrary (and possibly harmful) judgment based on your ideological preferences?
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 7/16/2007 7:46 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Well, on the one hand, I do think the Jesus prayer is meaningless repetition. But, as you say, we can't really know that. It's between the person and God. And,on the other hand, I DO think prayers like that have a "centering" effect. That's a good thing...
But again, I'm talking to YOU, though... I'm asking YOU why you are reaching out there for mantras etc. when there's so much to learn and do as a Christ follower?? Why do you spend time defending something like mantra repetition (and btw. judging others Christ-followers who "are so afraid of interacting with the meditations of other religions" and who are "so afraid of people being too "one with God" in the wrong way ..." etc)... when there's a lot more edifying things to do/say? I mean really...I don't get it. You say you are "saddened" by these people? Deeply? Aren't they just following their convictions like the rest of us?
Well, I'm not any better. Our judgmental habits are run deep, don't they? I HATE THAT! Seems like we never get 100% victory in this area.
Lemme say this: I certainly don't mean to be judgmental. If what I said is received that way by anyone, then please forget what I said! What do I know, anyway? I spend 20 seconds reading and another 20 posting scripture that comes up on a search at biblegateway! I'm not an expert on anything...and I DO have idealogical preferences. That's for sure 
ok, love love,
T
Hmmmm...so repetion of phrases dealing with truth (in the form of mantras) are negative because of the "meaningless repetition", huh? That's interesting. The JESUS PRAYER (also called the PRAYER OF THE HEART) would be considered a "mantra" that some people have prayed at least hundreds of times a day or more! Is that "meaningless repetition"? I bet probably not because the word "Jesus" is in there, right? That would probably redeem the meaninglessness of THAT repetition because of that name, right? But maybe even the Jesus prayer is not helpful because it doesn't specifically talk about things like Darfur. Hmm... What do you think about the Jesus prayer and it's use, Selah? ************************************ Selah: The main thing is not about weighing how demonic or evil it is, in my opinion. MY response to you, D. is about it being a waste of time!!!How could you say it is a "waste of time" for a certain person when you have no idea whether or not 1) God may or may not be using that in the person's life at that time and 2) the mantra actually brings some people CLOSER to God (just like it may have been with Orel on the animation) ? If you don't know those things about the situation, wouldn't your assessment be an arbitrary (and possibly harmful) judgment based on your ideological preferences?
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/16/2007 9:42 AM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
I'm asking YOU why you are reaching out there for mantras etc. when there's so much to learn and do as a Christ follower?? Why do you spend time defending something like mantra repetition (and btw. judging others Christ-followers who "are so afraid of interacting with the meditations of other religions" and who are "so afraid of people being too "one with God" in the wrong way ..." etc)... when there's a lot more edifying things to do/say? I mean really...I don't get it. You say you are "saddened" by these people? Deeply? Aren't they just following their convictions like the rest of us?
1) Yes, I am saddened by situations where ideology is held to the point of hindering a free exchange of ideas...and criticizing the act of wanting to have free exchange of idea with other religious thought.
2) You seem to make a deep separation between being a "Christ follower" and using a non-Christian mantra. Could this be a false separation?
3) No one said that it is wrong to hold convictions. I just think that both of us know that some people hold their personal convictions strongly in such a way that arbitrary, ill-informed statements are made. (I've done it enough times to know how it's done! )
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 7/16/2007 11:55 AM (GMT -6) | | |
On the one hand, I think Christian believers can and should affirm that God is everywhere present and actively at work attempting to draw people toward the perception of their created finitude, their dependence upon the one true God, and to an experience of personal resignation and faith/trust in that God so far as they are able to perceive God’s reality. On the other hand, God's being actively present is no guarantee that there isn't an equal or greater amount of the demonic in our worldviews.
Some comments:
(1) We should EXPECT to find SOME truth, some pointers, some evidence of God’s redemptive presence working within non-Christian belief systems. Paul seems to say in Acts 17 (and Romans) that God is surprisingly close and accessible to ‘pagans’ and that God really can be at work in effectual ways whenever people honestly follow their hearts and intuitions. How salvific a positive response to general revelation and conscience can be is difficult to say. We have every reason to hope that all possible grace will be extended to all persons.
(2) But we also have reason to believe that apart from the gospel, people universally do a super crappy job at perceiving and experiencing through general means of revelation. I won’t say it never happens. Pinnock thinks we’ll see Socrates in heaven. D, I’m guessing, is confident that we’ll see Buddha there. I don’t know. But if Romans 1 is any indication, humanity sucks a following directions. So just how effectual a positive response to general revelation can be is unknown. We can suppose inclusivism if we want, but even then that’s just for our satisfaction and theodicy. But it can't undermine the sense of urgency and mission we see in the NT church and its utterly Christ-centered message.
(3) Even if we should expect to find some truth in non-Christian belief systems, we should also expect to find a good deal of darkness (including SOME darkness in the baggage Christians carry around with them). It’s a mixed bag.
So I’m a bit ambivalent toward the videos of the kid. What are they supposed to be claiming? I don't know. That meditation is OK? Fine. Meditation is a biblical method of drawing close to God. Who denies that? That meditation on 'beauty' and 'love' per se are more helpful than selfish partying is in moving people towards God? Who would deny that. I'd rather people pray poorly (in the sense of their prayers being uninformed by the light of the gospel) than to not pray at all and have no spiritual sensitivities. Is D using the videos to claim the equality of all belief systems in terms of salvific value and potentiality? I wouldn't go that far. My beef is that prayer in Scripture is a ‘conversation between persons’ and not just a mental exercise intended to perceive the true nature of the universe. My point is, there’s much lacking in the spirituality of belief systems that fail to perceive ultimate reality as a PERSON who loves and engages us in relationship. And there's more still missing for those who do not yet perceive his incarnation on earth. So far as THAT element is absent in a person’s spirituality, we who do perceive and experience it in Christ have a huge mission. I would NEVER let go of (3) above because of (1). That is, I would never assume there’s no NEED to introduce the gospel to a person because they perceive the ultimate universal oneness of reality. Following Christ without preaching and sharing ‘Christ’ is not a biblical datum. It does not compute.
Tom
Post Edited (MANY) : 7/16/2007 1:00:27 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 7/16/2007 12:57 PM (GMT -6) | | I guess my problem is with the "Dependent Origination" post. What's distinctively Christian or trinitarian about it other than saying that everything is dependent on God all the way down. If that is correct then maybe R.C. Sproul was correct in saying that not one molecule is running around loose in God's creation.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 7/18/2007 1:26 PM (GMT -6) | | For Biblegal, the Lovely...
This is what I believe in....
Nesteruk, page 243, "Humanity as Hypostatis of the Universe"
about the ULTIMATE DIFFERENTIATION between Christ and the rest of humanity.
Christ, our idea about Christ, is the perfect model by reference to which we can answer the question about who we are. He is the man, "the first-born of every creature," (Col. 1:15), the archetype of which every human being is, in terms of his or her potentialities, the image. The difference between Christ and us is that Christ is eternally God's son, while we are God's sons because we are created in the image of Christ's divine humanity. To be a son of God is to have the Divine as the determining element of our being, that is, to be inherent in the divine hypostasis. It is precisely this that makes us human and that constitutes our humanity. To the degree to which we fail to attain a full realization of this, we fail to be human.
Jesus of Nazareth never failed to be truly human.
All other humans HAVE failed to be human.
There is only ONE Eternal Offspring of God...and we all inhere IN that Beautiful Offspring.
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Just to let ya know... 
Om Mani Padme Hummmmm... and...
 Namaste, all!
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete UNIty. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to SONship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. | | Back to Top | | |
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