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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 5:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Just finished Pitirum Sorokin’s The Ways and Power of Love: Types, Factors, and Techniques of Moral Transformation (1954). Very good. Spot-read the parts that weren’t of interest ‘cause I had other things to read also. But the bulk of it was great.

 

Also, just read Vincent Brummer’s Atonement, Christology and the Trinity: Making Sense of Christian Doctrine (2005). I have always liked Brummer. Two earlier books by him were awesome. This book started out great but ended up in a train wreck. I was very disappointed. His starts out by insisting on our making doctrine intelligible, making the case that doctrines which are unintelligible to us cannot function for us on an existential level. So he says we have to make some intelligible sense of the doctrines of the Trinity and incarnation if these doctrines are to properly engage us on the level of experience. Through the middle of the book he makes use of Bernard of Clairvaux to come up with a model of free and creative personhood right in line with what I have been thinking. I was pumped! I’ll get back to St. Bernard later down the road. But towards the end of the book Brummer dumps all over social theories of the Trinity and over the Cappadocians as well, essentially calling Eastern Christianity polytheist! He then says the Latin/Western approach is better. But he sees the problem the West has in accounting  for the distinction between F, S, and SP in other than modalistic ways. He even asks, So how do I account for the meaningfulness of such a belief? His answer? He takes back everything he said about the importance of intelligibility of doctrine at the beginning of the book and says we shouldn’t speculate. Well, if we’re going to abandon intelligibility, foreswear speculation, and just play the mystery card, what’s the advantage of looking like a modalist but denying that you really are a modalist over looking like a polytheist while denying that you really are a polytheist?

 

I also enjoyed reading Gary Charter’s The Analogy of Love: Divine and Human Love at the Center of Christian Theology (2007). Excellent. But he doesn’t really deal with the nature of love in necessary (in God) vs contingent (in humans) being.

 

Just yesterday I began David Bentley Hart’s The Beauty of the Infinite: The Aesthetics of Christian Truth. Gotta order a 10 lbs. dictionary so I can follow along. Slow, thick, and tough reading. But I’m liking this guy more and more. Towering intellect. I hope I can wade through it between now and June when I come home. By the way, Charter has some interesting things to say in his book in favor of UR. Quite developed. But more surprisingly, Hart devotes his last chapter (on ‘Eschatology’) to Gregory’s eschatology and UR. Harts says he can’t really come out and promote UR (‘cause Orthodox tradition doesn’t allow him to do so), but the point seemed clear enough to me.

 

Tom


 

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 9:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Recommendations for Tom #1:

 

INTRODUCTION:   TOWARD A TRANSPARENCY TO THE HOLY TRINITY: THE LIFE AND WORK OF FATHER BORIS BOBRINSKOY "For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their ...

http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Father-Boris-Bobrinskoy/dp/0881412511/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200842605&sr=8-1

In this work, Boris Bobrinskoy shows how by spiritual union to the life of Christ, we can be clothed with the Holy Spirit and filled with the infinite mercy of the Father, who far from pleasing himself in a blessed transcendence, suffers with humanity. This way of purification triumphs over all the deadly forces of division, darkness, and hate that dwell in the heart — a universe vaster than any other universe. The invocation of the Name, the asceticism of the body, and the baptism of the intellect constitute this long and difficult way of conversion and of cure: of unification with God, others, and even oneself.

Facing the suffering and the misery of the world, where may one find the strength to offer sympathy, support, and discernment? How may one descend into the hell of the human heart without despairing? In this work, the priest Boris Bobrinskoy shows how by spiritual union to the life of Christ, we can be clothed with the Holy Spirit and filled with the infinite mercy of the Father, who far from pleasing Himself in a blessed transcendence, suffers with humanity.

This way of purification triumphs over all the deadly forces of division, darkness, and hate that dwell in the heart'a universe vaster than any other universe. The invocation of the Name, the asceticism of the body, and the baptism of the intellect constitute this long and difficult way of conversion and of cure: of unification with God, others, and even oneself.

 

SEE:  http://books.google.com/books?id=eePg3D2UUw4C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=the+mystery+of+the+trinity+boris+bobrinskoy&source=web&ots=8z7CZTxpd1&sig=2mX-WHi7CBOP-asPp7z3vH_761g


(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 1/20/2008 9:27:52 AM (GMT-6)

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 9:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Recommendation #1 for Tom:

This is a book that I own, but have not read yet beyond browsing through it and reading part of the intro.

It's top-shelf scholarship about top shelf theologians. (Its a must read!!!)

 

Being With God: Trinity, Apophaticism, and Divine-Human Communion
by Aristotle Papanikolaou

http://www.amazon.com/Being-God-Apophaticism-Divine-Human-Communion/dp/0268038317

INTRO BEGINS:  "This book is about 'being with God,' about the realism of divine-human communion as it is expressed in the work of Vladimir Lossky (190358) and John Zizioulas (1931- ), arguably two of the most influential Orthodox theologians of the past century. Since it discussed divine -human communion through these two figures, it is also a small window into contemporary Orthodox theology. In addition to their impact on twentieth century Orthdoxy, each has served in their own time as a spokesperson for Orthodoxy to the non-Orthodox world. ......." 



(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 1/20/2008 9:30:14 AM (GMT-6)

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Sahid
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 9:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World - Rene Girard

The Symbolism of Evil - Paul Ricoeur

Both very good.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 9:58 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

#2 -- to go with #1, in one way (complementraity) and #3 by author.

This one I've read about half of. Its constructed so as to illumine what scripture says about the Trinity, and effects a devotional experience along with a scholarly experience at the same time. (Tom, that's the best I can describe it. biggrin ) 

The Mystery of the Trinity: Trinitarian Experience and Vision in the Biblical and Patristic Tradition

by Boris Bobrinskoy and Anthony P. Gythiel

340 pages (paperback)

The thought of the Eastern Fathers on the Trinity from the time of the Apostles to the end of the Byzantine era.

ONLY $40.24 from Alibris.com  BEST PRICE.

(Amazon's resellers want to scalp it for $100. eek 'll find you better. It was about $30 when I got mine new two years ago.) 

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?S=R&bid=9344387611&cm_mmc=shopcompare-_-base-_-aisbn-_-na )

 



(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 1/20/2008 9:33:10 AM (GMT-6)

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 10:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Recommendations for Tom #3:

 

INTRODUCTION:   TOWARD A TRANSPARENCY TO THE HOLY TRINITY: THE LIFE AND WORK OF FATHER BORIS BOBRINSKOY "For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their ...

http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Father-Boris-Bobrinskoy/dp/0881412511/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200842605&sr=8-1

In this work, Boris Bobrinskoy shows how by spiritual union to the life of Christ, we can be clothed with the Holy Spirit and filled with the infinite mercy of the Father, who far from pleasing himself in a blessed transcendence, suffers with humanity. This way of purification triumphs over all the deadly forces of division, darkness, and hate that dwell in the heart — a universe vaster than any other universe. The invocation of the Name, the asceticism of the body, and the baptism of the intellect constitute this long and difficult way of conversion and of cure: of unification with God, others, and even oneself.

Facing the suffering and the misery of the world, where may one find the strength to offer sympathy, support, and discernment? How may one descend into the hell of the human heart without despairing? In this work, the priest Boris Bobrinskoy shows how by spiritual union to the life of Christ, we can be clothed with the Holy Spirit and filled with the infinite mercy of the Father, who far from pleasing Himself in a blessed transcendence, suffers with humanity.

This way of purification triumphs over all the deadly forces of division, darkness, and hate that dwell in the heart'a universe vaster than any other universe. The invocation of the Name, the asceticism of the body, and the baptism of the intellect constitute this long and difficult way of conversion and of cure: of unification with God, others, and even oneself.

 

SEE:  http://books.google.com/books?id=eePg3D2UUw4C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=the+mystery+of+the+trinity+boris+bobrinskoy&source=web&ots=8z7CZTxpd1&sig=2mX-WHi7CBOP-asPp7z3vH_761g


(o)

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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 10:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've already ordered Papanikolaou's book. It's on its way. It's been in my wish list for four months waiting for the $.

T


 

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 10:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How much would you pay a university to enroll in a course called "Readings in..."?

And all this time Uncle Sam is providing you with a tent to read in and all the electicity you can use.

.

Look hard at the Bobrinskoy books. They would be good to read WHILE reading something else dryer or more philosophical.

-B


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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 10:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My problem is that the dry philosophical stuff is...

...yummy! I turn it into devotion! See how theotic (or pathetic) I am?

Tom


 

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feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 1:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Been going through Alvin Plantinga' stuff. Excellant reading! Also Timothy Keller's book, which will be released 2/15, Reasons For God, is excellant. Philsophical Foundations For A Christian Worldview by Moreland and Craig. Very heavy reading, but wonderful.
And, of course, still reading Barth. On his third CD. Can't get enough. Oh, a publisher just came out with an awesome addition of Calvin's Institutes. Got it from Christian Book Distributers for $17, postage included. So I'm getting into that.
Oh, and LOgic Of God Incarnate, by Thomas Morris. Excellant philsopher...

Post Edited (feelinahole) : 1/20/2008 12:40:52 PM (GMT-6)

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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
 
   Posted 1/20/2008 8:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been bouncing around like usual. I've been reading a bit on quantum weirdness by Paul Davies, Tom Van Flandern, Lehrner? and another guy whose name I forget--mostly because of another discussion I got in on another forum. Been reading some on a small book by an information scientist called, "In the Beginning, was Information," or something like that. Also, along these lines, Dembski's and Jonathan Well's new book, "The Design of Life."
 
I'm off and on with a fiction book by Stephen Lawhead, a christian writer who specializes in Celtic historical fiction. I read very little fiction. But he's the guy I turn to when I do. It's light enough and not too laboriously slow. This particular book I'm on is the first of his reworking of the Robin Hood tale.
 
I'm fixing to, tonight, take back up on a book I started a long time ago called "Language and Reality" by a now-deceased philosopher, Wilbur Urban. And then I do 5 minutes here and there on various books depending on what subject I'm looking for clear articulations of at the time.  In other words, I'm INCREDIBLY unfocused! I wish I didn't have to work for a living. It's SO distracting. biggrin


 

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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
 
   Posted 1/21/2008 1:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sound like great reads all!

"Why do we read?" asked C. S. Lewis. "To know we are not alone."

Hey Feelin, is there only one English version of Barth's CD?

Tom


 

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feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
 
   Posted 1/21/2008 3:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes (major sigh!)...and considering that there are (I think) 13 volumes you really don't have much of a choice of a discount. I go with Christian Discount Distributers. His books there run $39 each (for paperback imagine! The hardback are like $90!). You can wade through Amazon, but, unfortunately some of the paperbacks are pretty shotty. Esprecially if you are like me and like to write in them.
Barth really isn't for the faint of heart. He isn't easy and there is so much to disgest. If you aren't careful the richness can get to you. But I find his work incredible! My wife, however, rolls her eyes when I mention him!


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Penny
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 14
 
   Posted 2/6/2008 5:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I'm reading the Bible. I like to discuss it too.

Hope I'm not too old fashioned.


in God we trust

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Penny
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 14
 
   Posted 2/7/2008 8:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I also got a kick out of A.J. Jacobs' The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to follow the Bible as Literally as Possible.
 


in God we trust

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