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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > General Chat > Christ is the Telos. | Forum Quick Jump
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/23/2008 3:01 PM (GMT -6) |   | Now, preachers and pastors out there...
What would happen if we could get people to actually believe that we have the EXACT SAME "human natural capacities" as the Risen Christ does right now?
That all the power, glorification, miracles, love, truth, all that...can ACTUALLY come from our human spirit as it "indwells" Father's Spirit...RIGHT HERE ON EARTH RIGHT NOW. By grace through faith.
That they CAN (contrary to VERY, VERY, VERY popular belief) be just like Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit.
What if you got just 30 people to full one believe that...and live in "mundane ecstasy" all the time?
Maybe it would have looked something like this...
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
The Children of God in God's World.
In the Spirit of Christ, BE Christ to every "Christ" you see when you look at yourself and other human beings. "Insofar as you've done to the least of these..." | | Back to Top | | |
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 2/24/2008 12:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Sahid: If Jesus and all men have this spirit, we must go further to say Jesus does not have any further means (divine spirit) by which he apprehends and communes [with God]. Then you can come to the conclusion that our capacities are identical to Christ's.
Imago: THAT'S EXACTLY I WANT TO SAY!
Sahid: That's hard to believe. I think Jesus DOES have the Spirit of God. I think that "no one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." If humans need to have God "made known," and if Jesus is "the One and Only, who is at the Father's side" and "made him known," then it seem abundantly clear that Jesus DOES commune with God in a unique way among humans.
And btw, not that I care to speak in these terms, but if the Jesus does not have a divine spirit, then what about him IS divine? What would Willard et al. say about Jesus not possessing a divine spirit?
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/24/2008 8:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Sahid: If Jesus and all men have this spirit, we must go further to say Jesus does not have any further means (divine spirit) by which he apprehends and communes [with God]. Then you can come to the conclusion that our capacities are identical to Christ's.
Imago: THAT'S EXACTLY I WANT TO SAY!
Sahid: That's hard to believe. I think Jesus DOES have the Spirit of God. I think that "no one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." If humans need to have God "made known," and if Jesus is "the One and Only, who is at the Father's side" and "made him known," then it seem abundantly clear that Jesus DOES commune with God in a unique way among humans.
And btw, not that I care to speak in these terms, but if the Jesus does not have a divine spirit, then what about him IS divine? What would Willard et al. say about Jesus not possessing a divine spirit?
Clarification. Jesus human spirit DOES indwell the Holy Spirit...just like any human being's can do so. Jesus's human "unity of conciousness" is NOT the Holy Spirit...nor is it only God the Logos assuming that role. And this human "unity of consciousness" has OUR SAME "logos". The difference, as I've stated before, is Jesus being the ARCHETYPE of Humanity. He's the ONE Incarnate Word of the ONE Triune God. Christ is who he is BY NATURE. Jesus didn't have sin or a gnomic will...but he was like us in every other way (including our spiritual makeup! ) We become as he is BY GRACE. Christ is the ETERNAL Son. We are "sons in the Son"
Basically, what I see happening is that people take the uniqueness of Christ's NATURAL divine humanity and Incarnation...and somehow turn that into some "barrier" to the rest of us being like Christ...or even more having Christ completely live through us "Since he's SO unique, we can NEVER be just like him." or something like that. Some things I've heard...from believers...
"I'll never be like Jesus."
"There's only one Jesus and no one else can be who he was!"
"We're not perfect. We're not Jesus and no matter how we try, we'll never BE Jesus!"
"For someone to think that they are Jesus (in any type of way) is for someone to think they are God himself...and that's wrong."
Problems. Real problems.
But if we take seriously what it means that Christ is homoousias with us in his humanity (including the nature of his human spirit/nous)...new possibilities seem to just open up! 
In the Spirit of Christ, BE Christ to every "Christ" you see when you look at yourself and other human beings. "Insofar as you've done to the least of these..." | | Back to Top | | |
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893
| Posted 2/24/2008 9:07 AM (GMT -6) | | |
I think these guys are directly dealing with the question of the last 100 pages.
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Essence and Energy, Relics Part 5
Tuesday, February 19, 2008
We continue the discussion of essence and energy and give a very broad overview of the influence of the Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle on Augustine and Aquinas and how philosophy has influenced the views of God in the West. . We also discuss how the East and West's views of God manifest themselves in how we view creation and the human being's relationship to God. Post Edited (Corey) : 2/24/2008 3:24:22 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/24/2008 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/24/2008 9:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Practically speaking...
This means that it is NATURAL for the human spirit to be in perichoretic indwelling of and total "free obdience" to the Holy Spirit.
We are in an UNNATURAL state to the degree we are NOT in such a state.
The "sickness unto death"
In the Spirit of Christ, BE Christ to every "Christ" you see when you look at yourself and other human beings. "Insofar as you've done to the least of these..." | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/24/2008 9:18 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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