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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/6/2008 7:33 AM (GMT -6) |   | I'M LISTENING TO THESE AGAIN. SO MUCH THERE...
Occasional lectures by Fr. Thomas Hopko
Who Is The Theotokos?
A 3 part lecture delivered at the Northern California Antiochian Diocesan Women's Retreat Nov 9-11 2007 at the San Damiano Retreat Center in Danville, CA. We provide the 3 lectures in increments of approximately 30 minutes each.
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feelinahole
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| Posted 3/6/2008 9:21 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/7/2008 7:43 AM (GMT -6) | |
feelinahole said...
I dont get it...
I think you will be helped if you begin with THIS one.
Listen just to the first MINUTE.
More if you want.
But all you need is in the first minute.
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/7/2008 7:58 AM (GMT -6) | | To that first minute or two...
AMEN!!
Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.
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PotOnWheel
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Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/9/2008 5:25 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/9/2008 5:27 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/9/2008 7:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for the info, B. It IS good stuff! 
Behr quoting Maximus the Confessor on page 138.
"Christ eternally wills to be born mystically, becoming incarnate through those who are saved and making the soul which begets him to be a virgin mother."
Love it. 
Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.
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PotOnWheel
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Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/10/2008 6:03 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/10/2008 7:41 AM (GMT -6) | | I probably can't explain it to you well, Tom. Bruce, I bet you know what Maximus is saying, right? 
Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/10/2008 8:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Mario
Crying Out For Me
www.youtube.com/watch?v=026GaGDOwqM&feature=related
Whenever I hear this song, I hear the Christ talking to my idolatrous, harlot of a soul...
His wayword beloved Bride...
wooing me away from the "world" that has abused, neglected, and hurt me...
He can hear my heart...
Crying out for Him.
Only Him...
To save me...
Every second.
Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/10/2008 9:21 AM (GMT -6) | |
Tom said...
How can Christ eternally will to be born if the choice to create is contingent?
T
I pretty much don't understand any sentence with the word "contingent" in it.
I need help!
.
As to Maximus, I'm going to try, D; but help me out.
"Christ eternally wills to be born mystically, becoming incarnate through those who are saved and making the soul which begets him to be a virgin mother."
I just have to start at the end.
In the introduction to "First Fruits of Prayer: A Fourty-Day Journey Through The Canon of St. Andrew of Crete" Frederica Mathews-Green writes "...salvation...means God dwelling with us and filling us with his presence." (p. xii) So, taking the end of Maximus I see that in having God dwell in us and fill us we become a "virgin mother" (which is what Clement of Alexandria called the church) in which we are becoming beings in which God "incarnates" himself in us--we are becoming "born mystically." Mathews-Green pictures this theosis this way: "We never lose our own identity, but we are filled with God like a sponge is filled with water." (p. xiii)
The End. (actually at the beginning now)
(o)Post Edited (Spinning Pot-spinner) : 3/10/2008 9:25:09 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/10/2008 9:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Behr, pp. 115-117 (and the top two lines of 118) "fleshes" this out, this incarnation -- pun intended.
- The Gospel preached gives birth to faith in Christ. (115)
- The Word of God at work in believers. (116)
- Having died in the flesh, Christ lives in Paul. (116)
- Born again, we are the body of Christ. (117)
- By holding fast to the head, the body is nourished, knit together, and grows with growth from God. (117)
- We, the body/Church, are individually members of one another -- the grace given to us is for the benefit of the one body...building up the one body. (117)
- Christ has been made "the dead over all things for the Church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all" (Ephesiand 1.22-3)
- [QUOTING BEHR] The proclamation of the gospel is clealry understood by the apostle in terms of giving birth to Christians, those who respond to the Word of the Cross, the Word of God, in faith. He (Paul) is in travail with them, forming Christ in them, in those, that is, who are both individually and collectively the body of Christ -- bring(ing) Chritians into a new relationship with God, wheregy, sharing in the Spirit bestowed in the risen Christ, they also can call upon God as "abba, Father" (Rom 8.15; Gal 4.6). (p. 118)
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PotOnWheel
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Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/10/2008 10:06 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/10/2008 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Read carefully in Behr, from the bottom of page 129 to page 134 -- notice the "both together" on the left of the third line up from the bottom of 129 and then the two aspects "dynamic" and "static" on page 130 -- discussion of which develops on though 134.
[oops] Since page 129 is not included. I'll just type the short portion here!
This latter image of Mary does not sit well with much popular Marian piety (though St. John Chrysostom was not averse to it). But rather than avoiding the image of Mary that it presents, we should consider then both together and, more specifically, how Mary is spoken of in each, to be led more fully into the mystery of Christ. As we have seen in the preceding chapters, how we view Christ, the scriptures, and the whole...(of creation...)
You can pick up the rest here: http://books.google.com/books?id=MiRd9CqySfcC&pg=PA21&dq=john+behr+mystery+of+the+cross&sig=Lf30ICwKnv11ZHNeeTZY--cAWkI#PPA130,M1
This is a very REMARKABLE treatment. I hope that you can appreciate it!
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/10/2008 12:50 PM (GMT -6) | | Good stuff, B. Great responses! I loved this from Mathews-Green...
"We never lose our own identity, but we are filled with God like a sponge is filled with water."
One quote I'd like to put for clarification...from 116...
Christians are those who have been born again in Christ Jesus through the gospel; they are the ones who are having Christ formed in them. Finally, the apostle is not only the one who is travail with them, but is the paradigm of the state to which they are called:
I have been crucified with Christ: It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
Having died to the flesh, Christ not only now lives in the apostle, but Paul no longer lives--he identifies himself with Christ. Writing to the Galatians, he speaks of God having "revealed his Son in me" (1:16, not "to" me, as RSV), and praises them for having received him "as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus" (4:14)
Born again through the gospel in Christ Jesus, Christians are the body of Christ. This is no loose analogy or metaphor; the apostle Paul makes the identification without qualification: "You are the body of Christ and individually members of it," all, that is who "by the one Spirit were baptized into the one body" (1 Cor 12:27,13)
Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.
Post Edited ("I am-in-I Am") : 3/10/2008 5:19:06 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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