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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 7:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDuAHdaleNU&feature=related


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 7:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" (Matt. 5:8). Made in God's image, man is a mirror of the divine. He knows God by knowing himself; entering within himself, he sees God reflected in the purity of his own heart. The doctrine of man's creation according to the image means that within each person--within his or her truest and innermost self, often termed the "deep heart" or "ground of the soul"--there is a point of direct meeting and union with the Uncreated. "The Kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).

The quest for the inward kingdom is one of the master themes found throughout the writings of the Fathers. "The greatest of all lessons", says St. Clement of Alexandria, "is to know oneself; for if someone know himself, he will know God; and if he knows God, he will become like God." St. Basil the Great writes: "When the intellect is no longer dissipated among external things or dispersed across the world through the senses, it returns to itself; and by means of itself it ascends to the thought of God." "He who know himself knows everything," says St. Issac the Syrian; elsewhere he writes:

Be at peace with your own soul; then heaven and earth will be at peace with you. Enter eagerly into the treasure house that is within you, and so you will see the things that are in heaven; for there is but one single entry to them both. The ladder that leads to the kingdom is hidden within your soul. Flee from sin, dive into yourself, and in your soul you will discover the stairs by which to ascend.

And to these passages we may add the testimony of a Western witness in our own day, Thomas Merton:

At the center of our being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin and by illusion, a point of pure truth, a point or spark which belongs entirely to God, which is never at our disposal, from which God disposes of our lives, which is inaccessible to the fantasies of our own mind or the brutalities of our own will. This little point of nothingness and of absolute poverty is the pure glory of God in us. It its so to speak his name written on us, as our poverty, as our indigence, and our dependence, as our sonship. It is like a pure diamond , blazing with the invisible light of heaven. It is in everybody, and if we could see it we would see these billions or points of light coming together in the face and blaze of a sun that would make all the darkness and cruelty of life vanish completely…The gate of heaven is everywhere.

Flee from sin. St. Issac insists; and these three words should be particularly noted. If we are to see God's face reflected within us, the mirror needs to be cleaned. Without repentance there can be no self-knowledge and no discovery of the inward kingdom. When I am told "Return into yourself: know yourself", it is necessary to inquire: Which "self" am I to discover? What is my true self? (Kallisto's emphasis on the "is" there) Psychoanalysis discloses to us one type of "self"; all too often, however, it guides us, not to the "ladder that leads to the kingdom,", but to the staircase that goes down to a dank and snake-infested cellar. "Know yourself" means "know yourself as God-sourced, God-rooted; know yourself in God". From the viewpoint of the Orthodox spiritual tradition it should be emphasized that we shall not discover this, our true self "according to the image", except through a death to our false and fallen self. "He who loses his life for my sake shall find it." (Matt. 16:25): only the one who sees his false self for what it is and rejects it, will be able to discern his true self, the self that God sees. Underlining this distinction between the false self and the true, St. Varsanuphius enjoins: "Forget yourself and know knowself."

Kallistos Ware. Orthodox Way. "The Inner Kingdom" pp.55-56


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 7:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On the HUMILITY (POVERTY OF SPIRIT) thing...repost...
 
The Knight's Move: The Relational Logic of the Spirit in Theology and Science, there is a section called "The Spiritual Recentering of Human Development." Here, he discusses his model of spirtual growth. All parentheses and emphases are mine.
 
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This model further suggests that human development, currently being studied almost exclusively at the level of ego function and formation, is to be reinterpreted as centering not on the ego (Note: The self-understandings of "Tom", "Dwayne", "Brandon" are EGO-FORMATIONS...mental constructs that our brains have garnered because of our EMBODIED experiences between the "Self" and "Lived World"! This is extremely important to understand!) but on intensification as a bipolarity that extends between the ego and the Absolute Unity of Being. This bipolarity may be seen as the spiritual axis for human development, which intersects the arc of ego-development as one of it's polarities, and Absolute Unity at the center, as the other. Ego development (Erikson, Piaget, Kohlberg, etc) may be seen as circumnambulation around the center, the Absolute Unity of Being, but left to itself ego development is inextricably rooted in negation and eventual death. (Note: The mental formation of the ego CANNOT maintain it's self-relational integrity by itself. It needs a transcendent ground to do that. SK was RIGHT!) Spiritual development consists in increased access between the ego and the Divine center, not in ego development per se. Thus, the immature ego of the child may have greater access to the Center and be more spiritually mature than an adult ego with less access. (Note: Remember AKIANE, the artist child of God?) However, the adult ego may be more articulate with less access than the child and so effectively confuse the issue, making it appear incorrectly that ego development is definitive of spiritual development.

Although it cannot be fully spelled out here, this model suggests that the classic fourfold pattern of spiritual development is parallel to the phases of intensification. This pattern moves from awakening to purgation to illumination to unification, and at each stage access to the Divine center is enhanced as ego anxiety and strategies of defense subside. Thus, if the Christological nature of the model pertains as described above, then spiritual development may be conceived as a way of life in which one increasingly appropriates the bipolar coherence of Christ into one's own nature.
It should be evident that this in no way represents ego inflation or egoistic striving: it is precisely the opposite;
 
but the "I" who says "I, not I, but Christ" is not lost, only recentered from the ego ("Tom", "Dwayne", Brandon", etc) to the One who holds in his nature the full and complete account of the mutual indwelling of the Divine and the human. (Christ-the-Logos) 


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 7:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"I, not I, but Christ-the-Logos"
-- I am-in-I Am
 
biggrin biggrin biggrin


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 3/22/2008 8:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"...bit by bit..."


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 8:25 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce:
"bit by bit"

Hence the constant battle against the false self...and absolute transparency and dependence on God.

By grace through faith.

The Theotokos was ALL grace and ALL faith, right?


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 3/22/2008 8:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bonhoffer's "Life together."


(o)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 3/22/2008 9:09 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
But then, if pressed I'm going to have to side with T., as this does sound like a dualistic extreme.

(And I see they have a brainwave-stopping demo by the same guys. That sound different than the monastic saying to have your head in your heart. Very different sounding.)

Yeiks!


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 4:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce:
But then, if pressed I'm going to have to side with T., as this does sound like a dualistic extreme.

What do you mean "dualistic extreme"? Can you be more specific?

And "Life Together" is great! ;-)


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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feelinahole
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   Posted 3/22/2008 10:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm betting you guys are all one and the same...


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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 3/22/2008 10:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dualism, as in denying the flesh and making it extraneous.


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 3/22/2008 11:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce:
Dualism, as in denying the flesh and making it extraneous.

The Incarnate Word (Christ-the-Logos) is God in the flesh. How can the flesh be extraneous, in God's plan for creation and salvation?


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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Tom
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   Posted 3/23/2008 12:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Pulp FEELS what I SEE in D. But it's not a tendency toward Dualism. It's a tendency toward Monism. In my view it's beyond tendency. I might be misreading Pulp, but I think that's what he's trying to say--not enough genuine God-world distinction where it counts.

Tom


 

Post Edited (Tom) : 3/23/2008 1:02:51 AM (GMT-5)

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Sahid
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   Posted 3/23/2008 4:08 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Two thoughts:

What is the ethical significance of my being one of many spots of divine light? The two basic gnostic alternatives: asceticism and libertinism? Jesus taught neither. If there is no ethical payoff, I don't see the value of intellectual assent.

One of the speakers makes reference to either Luke 14:26 or John 12:25. Then he connects this to how we should abandon our own identities in favor of a recognition of our divine identity. The other speaker reads a line of Hegel and a mystical experience having to do with Hegel was sparked. I can't know for sure what goes on in other peoples heads, but it sure looks like something between free association and imagination. I wonder if either of these men ever have non-mystical big ideas. The one man describes his "overpowering intellectual illumination of the structure of being". It's not that I doubt that it happened. It's just that I don't see how it is mystical. Sounds like just a big idea.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Post Edited (Sahid) : 3/23/2008 4:11:18 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 3/23/2008 7:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PanENtheism, Tom. NOT Monism.


Whoever knows and recognizes how near God’s Kingdom is to him may say with Jacob, “God is in this place, and I knew it not.”
Meister Eckhart, "The Nearness of the Kingdom"

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

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Tom
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   Posted 3/23/2008 8:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, the distinction is a slippery one. I'd like to think of myself as a panentheist too. But as you know, that's a continuum of versions of panentheistic explanations of the God-world relationship. One end of it tends toward Monism. Where's the line where one crosses into Monism? It's hard to say. So I'm not dogmatic. I'm just saying that from where I stand you're a monist where (in my view) we expecially need to not be monists. I hear you SAYING otherwise; I'm just not convinced.

Tom


 

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