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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 6/11/2008 9:39 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
I wasn't think'n of you when I said that Tom. However, we are talking about the Christian community. For example, I suppose that the position that Zach takes, he would say that he believes "the Christian" shouldn't be involved politics, thus his view would seem binding on all Christians. All I'm saying is that my disagreement, hence my view, would mean that the Christian CAN be involved in politics. For some, this may not mean DIRECT INVOLVEMENT i.e. voting or holding a political office but rather speaking to it from without i.e. advocacy group or think tank (to the extent that Greg would speak to government (and influence) from without, he is involved in politics just as any organization or think tank or advocacy group is). Whatever way, it doesn't matter as much to me as much as the fact that not only do I think the Christian CAN be involved in politics but I think the Christian OUGHT to be involved in politics. And do you know why that is Tom? I'll tell you why Tom. The reason why Tom is because Tom? Those who believe that politics is inherently sinful Tom? They risk leaving a good portion of LIFE to the opposition Tom, (how is Christ truly Lord then?). If Tom, humans are CULTURE SHAPING creatures? They continue to shape culture even when they HAVE SUPPOSEDLY WITHDRAWN FROM IT. In other words Tom? We are just as much a part of creation even when we attempt to flee from it. So guess what? Involvement or not? We are shaping politics.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 6/11/2008 9:55:35 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 6/12/2008 8:17 PM (GMT -6) | | |
Where have I missed the point Sahid? Maybe I have. Maybe I'm just not getting what you're saying. It seems that you are against politics because it "coerces." Using instruments of "power over" to force people--to not force people. I dunno...that seems pretty clear to me. But do you feel "forced" that you live within a systemic structure that forces you not to have a slave? To not "own" a wife or to work along side of a woman? Do you feel forced to live by a system in which you have to use money--cold hard cash? Do you know about the sinful tendencies inherent in money? And yet we so thoroughly take these for granted that we don't give a second thought to participating in them. We don't even bat an eye at it. But even as we speak, we are. We are both participating and being forced to participate in structures that are tainted by sin. So help me out with this.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 6/13/2008 8:11 AM (GMT -6) | | Ooooo-Kaaaay...
I realize you say that you are not against politics, but then when it comes to voting...one shouldn't do that? Holding a position in office...one shouldn't do that? And why is that? Because that would be powering over others? So how ARE you for politics then?
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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JET
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 397
| Posted 6/24/2008 12:52 PM (GMT -6) | | |
From Andrew Sullivan's blog today:
"Dobson's attack on Obama is manna from heaven for the Democratic nominee. And the core argument [] is one where Obama wins. What Obama did to offend Dobson was point out a core tenet of secular liberal democracy:
Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason.
His specific referent, the abortion debate is not, moreover, [] an unfair one. In fact, science and reason are very powerful weapons for those opposed to abortion - and more effective and less divisive than pure resorts to revelation. What Obama is doing is to ratchet back the bad use of faith in the public square, while insisting on the validity of people of faith in the public square. He's still too willing to invoke faith himself - his own version - to justify public policy. But this pushback against the extreme of the right is an enormously important project - central to Obama's promise to get us past the hideous cultural deadlock of the past two decades. Obama is as productive to this debate as Bush was toxic. And what Obama is doing - whether he intends to or not - is to open space within conservatism for the kind of reasoned, limited government, pragmatic conservatism that we badly need to revive.
My bet is that this kind of discourse will also be very appealing to younger evangelicals. Classic Obama, in other words: vital, elevating debate, with an undercurrent of political self-interest. But no one should be in any doubt: Dobson is afraid. And he should be."
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/ygelsias-award.html | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/24/2008 1:04 PM (GMT -6) | |
For context...
Conservative is critical of Dem's stance on how the Bible should guide policy
updated 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - As Barack Obama broadens his outreach to evangelical voters, one of the movement's biggest names, James Dobson, accuses the likely Democratic presidential nominee of distorting the Bible and pushing a "fruitcake interpretation" of the Constitution.
Here too...
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
"Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."
Post Edited (Shekinah) : 6/24/2008 1:13:07 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 6/25/2008 9:52 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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