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|  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/25/2009 8:40 PM (GMT -6) |   | | I spoke with Dwayne some time ago about putting up a new thread on ethics. What I ultimately want to convey and counter is the idea that all we need to do is "follow the Spirit moment by moment" without there being any external criteria to guide us in ethical decision making. I've started these blogs and discussion on my facebook page and have not had that bad of a favorable response. What I will do is put up each of my posts and then see if an ensuing conversation starts. I've entitled these blogs, "It's A Bad Day To Be A Pharisee...Or Is It???" but eventually the focus is taken off the Pharisees per se and moves toward Spirit or pneumatic guidance/direction. However, it was/is important for me to talk about the Pharisees as a prerequisite to pneumatic direction/guidance as it sets the tone for how pneumatic direction/guidance interacts with principles. I haven't wrote out all my posts as of yet, but I'll throw out there what I have and we'll see where this takes us. Without further ado...here was my first post:
Part 1
When you hear or read the word, “Pharisee” or “Pharisees” what automatically comes to mind? In part because of unfavourable connotations attached to this word through constant usage and taking that usage for granted such as to not see something from a different perspective, most Christians over time have tended to perceive of the Pharisee or Pharisees as something negative or derogatory such as, “hypocrite” or “holier than thou.” As Kenneth Bailey points out in his book, “Jacob &The Prodigal: How Jesus Retold Israel’s Story” in the history of interpretation of Scripture, there is the tendency that “the more familiar a passage becomes, and the more central it is to the life and faith of the church, the more interpretive ‘barnacles’ it acquires.” Barnacles are marine crustaceans that attach themselves to rocks or the hulls of ships, that, in the case of ships need to be removed or else they become a detriment to the ocean or seafaring vessel. In other words, there are ways of seeing the story that become fused with the text itself such that the given interpretation does an injustice to the story or in our case here, to the character of the Pharisee (which in turn does an injustice to the story). Right off the bat, one might object to this and say that the Pharisees have a negative connotation because that is the way the Gospels actually portray them. But that is exactly the point and this is where some of the human element comes into the picture. According to some scholars, the Pharisees appeared as rivals and opponents of the early Christians AFTER the lifetime of Jesus on into the first century. Thus, a confrontation with Pharisaic Judaism that characterized this early situation as well as the portrayal in the Gospels will be of some importance in assessing the picture of the Pharisees in the Gospels. That is, it is plausible that to those who authored the Gospels, a Pharisee, as an opponent, would have loomed larger than some of the actual opponents from the lifetime of Jesus and a opposition party which stood against their lord as well as continued to stand against them might get more play or blackballed than a group that would have dropped out of the picture after Jesus day. Having said that, I want to take another look at the Pharisees and hopefully reorient our view not only of the Pharisees themselves but also of the radicalism of what Jesus had to say to them. It might have been that Jesus does not so much focus his attack on hypocrisy (as Matt 23 alleges) but against the desire within EVERY human being (and not just the Pharisees) to attain righteousness by self and works. In other words, the conflict and antithesis between Jesus and the Pharisees is more so against “extravagant legalism” (extreme righteous?) which is sustained not only by his words but also by his life. Much of modern theology is prone toward the kerygmatic (pronouncement, preaching--something less formalized) as opposed to didache (commandment). But we need to be reminded that though there is a danger with focusing some attention on law, Jesus did say, “these words of mine” yes, Torah, “the law of Christ” is part of the New Testament Word of God as well. Could it be that “Law” is an expression of Grace?
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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  |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/26/2009 10:14 PM (GMT -6) |   | Actually, I was thinking of posting all of my stuff up on here. But you can find me, "Brandon Blake" in the Detroit network.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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  |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/27/2009 12:01 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
My second post on the Pharisees...
A VERY short post on the historical Pharisee. ------------------------------------------------------ Under King Solomon there was a mastery and unity over the land of Palestine. After his death, around 722 B.C., that unity was broken. The Northern Kingdom of Israel in which 10 of the 12 tribes consisted was conquered by Assyria and it is probable that those Hebrew people went into exile and/or became absorbed into the people with whom they dwelt. Essentially, they ceased being Jews. In 586 B.C. the Southern Kingdom of Judah was conquered by Babylon. The Temple was destroyed, the rituals brought to an end and most of its inhabitants were taken into captivity. Questions that had befallen the Northern Kingdom would now be the same for the Southern Kingdom. Would Judah give way to the seductions of the surrounding alien culture? Would she become assimilated and absorbed into it? However they survived, one thing seems sure, the people maintained their identity through the Law. The religious leaders of Jewry by and large realized that Israel could attain a separate entity and keep it that way only on a religious basis. As a result, the synagogue, the place where the Law would be read and studied came into being and the scribe or the instructor came to the fore in the community. And it is over against this background that Pharisaism is to be understood. That is, out of the fires of exile, a people were pledged to a life of conformity to the revealed will of their God made known in Law. DefinitionsMost scholars derive the term Pharisee from the Hebrew word, “parush” meaning “separated” or “isolated.” The question then arises, "Separated from whom or from what?" One theory says, that this separation is from the nations based on Ezra 6:21--“So the Israelites who had returned from the exile ate it, together with all who had separated themselves from the unclean practices of their Gentile neighbours in order to seek the LORD, the God of Israel.” However, the term Pharisee does not appear at all in Ezra and though the idea of Pharisaism is beginning to come into being, it is not fully explicit. A second more acceptable theory is that separation was from the later period of the second century B.C. in which Jewry was in a struggle against Greek culture that was being forcefully imposed on it by Antiochus Epiphanes However, though the idea of separation is prominent among scholars, the question as noted above arose as to whom this applied too. Was it to the whole community, the people of Israel or was it applied to a separate group? Though some scholars have pointed out that it applied to the whole community, the reason this was so was because it was thought that the whole community itself struggled against the priests who claimed to be the SOLE interpreters of the law they (the community) thought that ALL who obeyed the law could interpret it as well. The bottom-line though for most scholars is that the term referred to a group or sect and that it is probable, that the separation was from some furious political nationalism which marked the emergence of the Pharisees as a distinct party. Now, though Pharisaism connoted the idea of separation, that is only the negative side to it. The positive side was that Pharisaical saintliness demanded obedience to the commandments--a submission to the yoke of the Law. As noted in my comments in the previous post (and I will say more about this later) this was not always some mere formalism or externalism and at this point one should begin to wonder about not only the caricature of the Pharisee as has been portrayed throughout most of Christendom, but should also cause us to pause and reflect upon our own spirituality--about our own “walk with the Lord”---about our own separation, consecration and obedience to the God. Jesus tell his disciples that their obedience should out do the righteousness of the Pharisees, but one has to wonder if the Pharisees obedience is out doing ours. If God has told us not to bear false witness against our neighbour, should we not be OBLIGATED to reconsider the witness that we have assented to and scrape the barnacles off?
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  might-be-don Registered Member
 Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 830 | Posted 2/27/2009 12:39 PM (GMT -6) |   | A couple of quick observations...
In your preamble to Part 1 the shift from "follow the Spirit moment by moment" to "pneumatic direction/guidance " is quite telling about what is to come.
In Part 2 the capitalization of "OBLIGATED" tends to reduce our now "heart of flesh" to meaninglessness. We are not OBLIGATED to do the right thing, but constrained by love. How do you think 1 Peter 5:2 is to be read ? "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;"
Instead, 1 Peter 5:2, maybe should be "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, because of your obligation;"
Did you mean to push these buttons ?
peace, don The world's perfect, wouldn't change a thing.
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 |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/27/2009 12:54 PM (GMT -6) |   | I wonder what you think that shift is might-be-don? I don't intend for there to be any sort of dichotomy between them. Following the Spirit moment by moment and pneumatic direction/guidance as I understand them are the same. As to the second part, how about this verse: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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   |  Similitude Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2004 Total Posts : 4968 | Posted 2/27/2009 4:44 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Don: As I understand the word "constrained" in this context it refers to an inner complusion, not an external requirement. And yes, it's all about motivation.
Jeff: I still don't see the difference. If I once burned my hand in a fire and, thus, learned that fire will cause me pain, it is still true that my change of future choices about that matter are motivated "internally." Because my motivation to not experience suffering is a SENTIENT motivation--i.e., it is based on a purely spiritual capacity in myself. No one is forcing me physically to not touch the fire anymore, and no one is controlling my mind to not touch it.
We have all kinds of motivations that are occasioned by experience, and in that sense they are externally caused, but they are internal in nature even though they have been aroused by entities outside of us or our body. Indeed, the vast majority of our motivations are caused/aroused, at least in part, by entities outside of us. So I'm still not seeing the distinction. If we never experienced a sense perception, e.g., I have no reason to believe we'd ever experience sentience at all--or, in that case, motivation. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/27/2009 8:38 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Don: Ok. It's just the feeling of relationship indicated by "Spirit", and the very mechanical feeling of "pneumatic".
Brandon: Let me say off the bat that I believe in "pneumatic guidance" or "Spirit guidance/direction." As a matter of fact "life in the Spirit" is a major motif in Pauline literature and according to Fee, and well, I agree with that. However, what I find problematic is that many Christians (and what I've seen on these boards) say that all we need to do is "follow the Spirit moment by moment" and screw any principles or any sort of external criteria that may interact with the Spirit, as this is ultimately seen as legalism. I mean, we've had a little bit of discussions on this as well as some talk about SK's "suspension of the ethical"--if those are the same thing. In other words, there is some "morality without rules" and I don't agree with that. So, what I propose in my blogs is swinging this back again.
Don: As to the scripture... The disciples at this time in their lives understood the language of command. Fifty years later, if Jesus was to say the same thing to them, I can see them saying to Jesus, "No need to command, it's our desire and pleasure to love all."
Brandon: Well, I deal with this in a couple of posts later, but think of it like this. In the Old Testament you had a bunch of these laws right? Some of these laws were directed toward God and some were directed toward fellow human beings. Now, though the children of Israel did not obey the laws perfectly WE SHOULD NOT UNDERSTAND THEIR OBEDIENCE AS MERE EXTERNALISM AND FORMALISM. One could keep the laws out of a genuine heart-felt faith. Out of love for God and their fellow human beings. One could have "trust in" (love for God and fellow humans) AND "fidelity to" with regard to one's relationship with God. Trust in God and fidelity to his commandments. Having said that, though there is a discontinuity between the Testaments, there seems to still be a continuity such that what we have is a "new Moses" a "new lawgiver" and a "new Torah" (its ironic, how Seth McCoy will draw out some continuities in his sermon "Prayer and Patience for Justice, yet when it comes to ethics we seem to want to skip over that). The new lawgiver, Jesus, gives laws in not only what he said but with his whole life-- it is something to be followed and obeyed. Now, even here, I don't think some of these scholars have gone far enough as I think that there is a "triune commander" and thus the commands can be found throughout scripture. Yes, love is an important factor/condition in all of this (and I get into that too), however, it should be clear from not only LOOKING BACK at the Old Testament and Pharisaical piety, but it should be understood that a part of Spirit guidance will involve imperatives or commands--some external criteria along with love.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  Similitude Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2004 Total Posts : 4968 | Posted 2/28/2009 9:21 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Brandon: Yes, love is an important factor/condition in all of this (and I get into that too), however, it should be clear from not only LOOKING BACK at the Old Testament and Pharisaical piety, but it should be understood that a part of Spirit guidance will involve imperatives or commands--some external criteria along with love.
Jeff: I think from the gospels, what we see Christ arguing is that love is the ADJUDICATING PRINCIPLE of the Torah, not that it is just a different commandment in the list. IOW, ALL the commandments, when proplerly understood, are INSTANCES of love. Paul makes the same argument in Romans and Galations. James seems to do the same thing. The reason why specific instances of love are revealed (like don't commit fornication and don't commit adultery and don't covet) is because it is SO EASY for humans to believe that those acts can be right when they are not. Our emotions are very deceptive.
Thus, the specific commandments reveal specific ways to love. And then, when we have wisdom (which comes from obedience to the milk), we can use the general principle of love to adjudicate how and when these specific rules might have to be altered in specific circumstances--like David eating the shewbread, the disciples plucking corn on the Sabbath, Jesus eating with publicans and "sinners" when they showed interest in hearing him, such that he could call them to repentance, and Peter seeing that receiving the Holy Spirit "cleansed" the BELIEVING gentiles such that they were no longer ceremonially unclean to a Jew. In each of the latter cases, there was a rule that seemed to be broken. But the rules were fine as they were. They just had to be understood in the context of their purpose to be PROPERLY "applied."
So I agree that externalism and formalism is not the issue Christ is addressing with the scribes and Pharisees. It is the fact that they just flat misinterpreted the MEANING of the commandments. And that is because they did not take every jot and tittle to see how the different commandments, adjudicated by love, condition one another. They took a verse and interpreted with no regard for how it was to be understood in the LIGHT of the others. Consequently, they interpreted them unto their own self-interest. They would pull the oxen out of the ditch on the Sabbath because his MONEY was at stake. But they couldn't care less about a son of Abraham being healed. This is what Christ meant when he said they wouldn't lift a finger to do the harsh duties they imposed on others. They weren't nice people.
Post Edited (Similtude) : 2/28/2009 11:28:49 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 2/28/2009 5:38 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Similtude: So I agree that externalism and formalism is not the issue Christ is addressing with the scribes and Pharisees. It is the fact that they just flat misinterpreted the MEANING of the commandments.
Brandon: We don't have to make this a complicated thing you guys. There were some Pharisees that added layers of interpretation upon interpretation in order to cover every conceivable exigency but not all Pharisees were like this. Regardless, some had a genuine heart-felt faith and in response to loving God they attempted to keep his commandments. That's all I'm saying. As a result of loving God they genuinely sought to keep his commandments. They obviously did not keep them perfectly and within the piety of Hebraic Judaism, there were both acting and reacting tendencies. An acting tendency is an ordering of one's life in external and formal arrangement according to the Law in order to GAIN righteousness and/or appear righteous. A reacting tendency is the molding of one's life in all its varying relations according to the Law in response to the love and grace of God. To both, the Law was important but it was important for different reasons. Externalism and formalism are an issue insofar as they lacked an inwardness and genuine heart-felt faith in which everything was merely external and formal and superficial.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  Similitude Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2004 Total Posts : 4968 | Posted 2/28/2009 6:39 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Brandon: Externalism and formalism are an issue insofar as they lacked an inwardness and genuine heart-felt faith in which everything was merely external and formal and superficial.
Jeff: Well, Jesus made different specific points along the way. He said the pharisees:
1) were hypocritical,
2) put tradition over the word of God,
3) put too little emphasis on the weighter things,
4) drew near to God in lips but not heart,
5) and so on...
I'm just agreeing with you that commandments, per se, are not problematic. But it is still true that love is the bottom line EVEN to the commandments, as the Sermon and Paul's writings explicitly say. If all the bible said was love one another without specific commandments there would be people fornicating, being dishonest, coveting, giving improper preference, etc., all the while thinking they were being loving. Love is to be done in SPECIFIC kinds of actions, many of which are NOT self-evident to the whole race. Commandments enumerate SOME of those for us to get us at a decent starting point. We can grow in wisdom from there, but basics are basics.
The State, too, HAS to promote the common good by legislating with some degree of specificity. It can't just have a law that says love another. Judges would interpret things too diversely if that was the case. And then there would no justice in the enforcement of laws. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 3/1/2009 9:05 AM (GMT -6) |   |
BBBCanada said...
There were some Pharisees that added layers of interpretation upon interpretation in order to cover every conceivable exigency but not all Pharisees were like this.
Paul (Saul of Tarsus) was once a renowned Pharisee. In the book of Romans, he addressed the important role of the law of the State. More importantly, he speaks on how the ceremonial law was a temporal provision given to the Jews, knowing that the standard of the moral law could not be met. That no one can, or will, be declared righteous by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin, but still, the law has no power over sin. He points out the futility of such laws and reveals another law, one of the heart, that will set us free from the bondage of sin so that we become slaves to righteousness. Through Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life sets us free from the law of sin and death.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others." Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 3/1/2009 8:39:53 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Similitude Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2004 Total Posts : 4968 | Posted 3/1/2009 9:52 AM (GMT -6) |   | I should add that justice itself plays out as specifics. Justice is grounded in the intuitive belief that analogy is a valid way to infer what other humans are like and that they are, therefore, motivated SIMILARLY to us and that God HAS and IS motivating them thus, though we can choose to live in denial of this. Thus, if the commandments are just a collection of SPECIFIC ways to LOVE one another and God, they are, as Paul said, HOLY AND JUST AND GOOD. When Christ gave the new commandment of "loving one another," I don't think he was saying that love was something new. He couldn't have been saying that. He already said the Torah hung on the two great love commandments. Rather, what he was saying is that the BROTHERHOOD of believers in him would THEN take a familial preference EVEN over kinmanship with fellow Israelites and other affiliations. And that familial preference eventually even applied to GENTILES--a very radical and new notion.
Obviously the civil code of Israel doesn't apply to us. Believers are not a nation with a civil code in that sense. But even that civil code, married as it was to a covenant of blessing, was obligated on the grounds of love for those to whom it applied. For there were judgments associated with apostasy. Thus, to disregard it was to act contrary to the good of that nation. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 3/1/2009 7:59 PM (GMT -6) |   | To TA: I'm not implying that we don't need the Messiah. We cannot be right with God via keeping the Law. What I'm saying is that both Old Testament Jews and New Testament Pharisees responded to God's love via attempting to keep his commands. They realized God's love for them and responded by doing what God required of them. That's all. I think all of us can agree on this. Not everyone was doing it to gain righteousness (acting tendency) but because they genuinely loved God because they realized God's love for them and they sought to do what he required of them in their response to his love (reacting tendency). Are we agreed on this?
To Similtude: Love is a command and a broad one at that. It can be applied to specific situations differently by fellow believers, right? However, as you seem to be aware of, there are so many commands throughout both Old and New Testaments that are not the command to love. For example, we could talk about a leader in the Church being above reproach. In that day, divorce may have been what it meant to be above reproach however, in our day it may be something else say for example, viewing porn on the internet. Ultimately yes, this is about loving both God and our fellow human being, however more specifically it would be about being above reproach and that can be applied differently by fellow believers at different times and places. To go a little further, we might interpret and apply one broad command in our own time differently amongst ourselves even. I talk about this in my last post, but "the man who not only notes the principles and example of the Law of Christ but who also allows the Mind of Christ to make application to his ethical judgment at each given moment, “judges all things” 1 Cor 2:15. Such a person realizes that as he is guided by both the Law of Christ and the Mind of Christ” he need not worry about what men say for it is the “Lord who judges” 1 Cor 4:3-4, 1 Cor 2:15, 2 Cor 10:7, Col 2:16. At the same time he will allow the same freedom of ethical decision for his fellow Christian. He may see his brother taking a different course of action, but as his brother so desires to act within the bounds of the Law of Christ and be guided by the Mind of Christ, he ultimately recognizes that it is “before his own Lord that he stands or falls” Rom 14:4, Rom 14 1Cor 2:5 and 2 Cor 5:10." And let's remember, the "Law of Christ" which I speak about is not only the commands given throughout scripture, but are the teachings and example of the very life of our Lord Himself.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 3/1/2009 8:44 PM (GMT -6) |   | | I agree, Brandon.
I also like what you said about situational ethics. It’s here, in your response to Jeff, that you actually hit on what I had underlined in my previous post. That is the "law of the Spirit of life", or “another law, one of the heart”, or as you called it, the “law of Christ”.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others." Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 3/1/2009 8:18:21 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 3/1/2009 9:41 PM (GMT -6) |   | Well, I do differeniate the Law of Christ from the Law of the Spirit and the Mind of Christ. The Law of Christ are the ethical imperatives found throughout scripture as well as in the LIFE and teachings of Christ. The Law of the Spirit is as the inner guidance of the Spirit and the Mind of Christ is the "the activity of the Spirit at work in the believer without whom the principles of the Law of Christ remain remote and unattainable. If all we needed was the principles, then it would seem that all we have is religion. Thus, the Christian is ultimately guided by the Spirit if guidance and Christian life is to be truly Christian, John 16:12-15" as I say in my last post.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  BBBCanada Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 2763 | Posted 3/1/2009 9:48 PM (GMT -6) |   | Here is Part three of my posts:
Haven’t been on here for a while. I want to begin where I left off from the last post. Essentially, the idea that I was trying to convey there was that one could be a Pharisee, attending to the law out of a heart felt and genuine faith-that not everything was formalism and externalism--that there could be a genuine love and “trust in” AND “obedience to God.”
Now, my point was not to say that one could be made righteous upon doing such works and therefore there is no need for a Messiah. The Messiah has come and for our BEING MADE RIGHTEOUS, the works of the law no longer apply.
However, in much recent theological literature what this has translated into is that because we have no need for the law in our being made right with God all we have to do is follow the Spirit (listening to that “still small voice”) in whatever situation we are in without ANY external criteria to follow. In other words, freedom in Christ means freedom from the domination of the Law which is to say that the Christian lives a life no longer under a detailed code which regulates each particular action but in the new life of the Spirit (a point that my buddy Randy was attempting to get across in one of his responses to my first post where he says that the Pharisees always asked “Why” to have perfect knowledge in order to know how to respond [live for God] in any given situation).
However, before commencing any further (I will deal with following the Spirit within the next couple of posts) I think it is needful that we recognize two strains in Pauline thought. As indicated above, one is the “indicative.” That is, the indicative is that we are “free ‘in’ Christ”--Christian liberty and the other is, the imperative--our part. Such that it would look something like this:
Indicative: “God is at work in the Christian’s life.” Imperative: “Work out your own salvation.” Phil 2:12 Indicative: “You are ‘in’ Christ.” Imperative: “clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ.” Rom 13:14 Indicative: “dead to sin and alive to God ” Imperative: “…consider yourself so to be…” Rom 6:11 Indicative: “Sin will have no dominion over you.” Imperative: “…so do not permit sin to have dominion over you.” Rom 6:12-14 Indicative: “You are free from the law.” Imperative: “…so stand fast.” Gal 5:1 Indicative: “You live by the Spirit.” Imperative: “Walk by the Spirit.” Gal 5:25
It seems that one cannot separate the two for to do so, is a “satanic parody” as one scholar put it. And the question then arises as to what the relationship of the imperatives to the indicative are. Two points come to the fore. One is that the they are based in the fact of a new nature and the other is that they are motivated by love.
New Nature--In Romans 6 Paul says the Christian has become “a new creation” and out of this capacity Christians are exhorted to PRESENT THEMSELVES “as those alive from the dead.” (out of the actuality--‘hosei’ Rom 6). That is, Paul declares the very fact of the believer’s death to the old nature and his resurrection to the new ought to settle the question of his allegiance.
The same can be said of the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal 5:19-24 where the contrast between the “works of the flesh” and the “fruits of the Spirit” points out the same emphasis of the changed nature as the basis for the acceptance and fulfillment of the Gospel imperatives. The word, “fruit” seems to have been deliberately chosen to suggest that the good deeds of the believer are characterized by a certainty spontaneity. That is, they are the natural outcome of a transformed nature rather than the laborious attempt to conform to an external code ie. again, not mere gruelling formalism or externalism.
Also, Luther’s translation of Rom 6 “presenting their bodies IN ORDER that you become holy” is probably more appropriately read in light of Rom 12 where Paul again urges his readers to present their bodies WITHOUT the idea that by so doing they gain a further degree of holiness but rather, that they thereby but respond to the mercies of God. Again, here, not a mere formalism but rather arising out of a “trust in” and “obedience to” dichotomy.
Motivated by Love-The imperatives find their motivation in the indicatives of the Gospel. That is, that Christian ethics is motivated by love and not impelled by the desire to gain righteous. In other words, Christian ethics has the character of works which doesn’t establish the relation of man to the Transcendental but rather it takes the form of OBEDIENCE to the One who has already established that relationship. For Paul, righteousness was already realized in Christ such that New Testament ethics--Gospel ethics is a “therefore-wherefore” ethic.
This should be a reminder to Christians who so many times, quote Philippians 2:12 which exhorts us to “…continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling…” but what they often neglect is that this verse starts off saying, “…as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now MUCH MORE in my absence…” assumes that the works of the Christian is to be under the caption obedience.
So there is a distinction between works in order to gain righteousness and works taking the form of obedience based on righteousness which ultimately lead Martin Luther to declare: “Our faith in Christ does not free us from works, but from false opinions about works.”
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 3/1/2009 9:56 PM (GMT -6) |   |
BBBCanada said... Well, I do differeniate the Law of Christ from the Law of the Spirit and the Mind of Christ. The Law of Christ are the ethical imperatives found throughout scripture as well as in the LIFE and teachings of Christ. The Law of the Spirit is as the inner guidance of the Spirit and the Mind of Christ is the "the activity of the Spirit at work in the believer without whom the principles of the Law of Christ remain remote and unattainable. If all we needed was the principles, then it would seem that all we have is religion. Thus, the Christian is ultimately guided by the Spirit if guidance and Christian life is to be truly Christian, John 16:12-15" as I say in my last post. Thanks for your clarification, Brandon. Good stuff!
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others." | | Back to Top | | |
   |  Similitude Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2004 Total Posts : 4968 | Posted 3/2/2009 8:20 PM (GMT -6) |   | | I'm not familiar with it except by name. What is it, exactly?
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