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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Ethics, etc. > (No Subject)
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 12/16/2004 7:33 PM (GMT -6) |   | The command to forgive "seventy times seven," is qualified by our Lord with "if he repents." We are told to be forgiving just as our Father in heaven is forgiving; does God forgive without repentance?
I think Matthew 18 would also apply directly to the situation you describe. (Which passage, by the way, expressly rules out the entire "we have to forgive unconditinally" baloney).
While the use of force would in most cases obviously not be the Christian thing to do (unless it were in defense of others and then only the minimal amount needed to restrain an attacker, IMO), there's nothing in Scripture that says as Christians we must be doormats for abusive people, even emotionally abusive ones.
Jesus, Paul, and Peter all stood up to those who were in the wrong and rebuked them to their face in some cases, so it can't be that it is never right to do so.
Blessings,
John
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 12/16/2004 9:05 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Sahid
Real life here. I've got a friend. He has a habit of doing things that are at best insensitive and selfish and at worst deliberately hurtful. Many of my friends have been hurt bad (emotionally).
Now it seems to me that I should be forgiving and turning the other cheek. (Sorry, I don't buy the passive-aggressive interpretation.) But what am I actually supposed to do? Not gossip/warn my friends who are likely to be hurt next? The problem is harder because now he's admitting he was wrong and exposing the pain that was at the root of the mean things he did. He's somehow the hero. He's the one getting the attention and sympathy now, while those he hurt are still struggling with the pain he caused. I wouldn't be surprized if the confession is just another way to manipulate people into giving him what he wants.
Anyways, I guess what I'm asking for are precise definitions of 'forgiveness', 'love', and 'defending the weak'. The only acceptable definitions will be those that can be done at the same time. Can I forgive without trusting? Can I love someone without warning them of danger? Can I defend the weak and forgive their attacker at the same time?
Sadly, it sounds like he is getting some needs met this way, in an unhealthy way, and it's working. Sounds like people buy into it, hook, line and sinker...well-meaning people of course.
I believe that as shepherds, it is our responsibility to protect people. We can do this in love. Not to do it would be unloving.
You can forgive someone, without allowing them to continue to hurt people, without trusting them, or even without having a relationship with them.
I think you have the right spirit here, and you want to shield your friends against unnecessary hurt. It is like giving a tornado warning. If you see it coming, you need to warn others. This person obviously does not realize the harm they are causing.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/17/2004 1:47 AM (GMT -6) | | I'm a teacher.
Isn't there such a thing as 'forgiving' yet also watching out, and not giving so much allowance. Why put yourselves in harm's way? Set boundaries. That does not necessarily mean that the activity of forgiving--before God--can't happen too. | | Back to Top | | |
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 12/20/2004 12:06 PM (GMT -6) | | JEE, the thing is, I don't know if he is continuing or not. Either he has really changed or he is using people through making it look like change.
I like that Jef. I may look and feel like a fool later. But that's better than treating him unfairly.
Part of the problem is me. I see all the stuff he does and want to just rant to people about it. And if it turns out he was not sincere, I've got another friend who will be hurt. She has overcome her suspicions of him, but she doesn't know everything I know. But she's a Christian, and she is willing to take a chance with him. It's just that maybe she wouldn't if I told her what I know.
But if we are both Christians, then we both should be willing to take a chance with him. (I mean, Jesus took the consequences of my sin not knowing if I'd make it worth his while.) So, since I think she should do what she's doing, maybe it's best not to tell her things that could change her mind, even if they are true and could protect her.
Whatever. I'm not going to air his dirty laundry. I've already made up my mind. Just trying to think it through.
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 12/20/2004 3:41 PM (GMT -6) | | Sahid,
quote:
And if it turns out he was not sincere, I've got another friend who will be hurt. She has overcome her suspicions of him, but she doesn't know everything I know. But she's a Christian, and she is willing to take a chance with him. It's just that maybe she wouldn't if I told her what I know.
But if we are both Christians, then we both should be willing to take a chance with him. (I mean, Jesus took the consequences of my sin not knowing if I'd make it worth his while.) So, since I think she should do what she's doing, maybe it's best not to tell her things that could change her mind, even if they are true and could protect her.
Whatever. I'm not going to air his dirty laundry. I've already made up my mind. Just trying to think it through.
If by "take a chance with him," you mean date him, it might be wise to inform her. That way she can choose to wait and see, given his history, before getting emotionally involved in a way that would be more problematic if it turns out to be a false repentance. In other words, if she's contemplating dating him, she may be able to be perfectly forgiving and still choose to remain emotionally unattached (romantically speaking), for now, simply to be prudent.
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