I found a new recruit for Mission Farm Aid, Sir. He should fit right in, he's shown great zeal for the home grown *** farm.

 

Post Edited (sparknheart) : 4/14/2005 8:49:01 PM (GMT-5)

 

<coff><coff><scuffing foot> you see, Spud Specialist Spanknfrank, the potatoes need to be PEELED for the cooking pot, not shot.

 

The low quality of volunteers you get these days....... sheesh!

 

 

Roadkill ?

 

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Under what circumstances (threshold) would you advocate taken up arms?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

The Old Testament poses another problem.  God time and again uses humans as his agents of punishment.  Only God has the wisdom, perspective, and power to justify judging.  If God were to appoint someone as his agent of punishment, then I suppose he's gotta do what he's gotta do.  But that one should be very careful.  He must be sure that it is God's will he is doing, and he must remember that God often punishes his agents for the very actions that effect His punishment.  I'm not ruling out divinely commanded violence, but Jesus' example should at least be our starting place and may be the only acceptable way of life after the cross.

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Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Post Edited (Sahid) : 4/16/2005 12:40:13 AM (GMT-5)

 

Hi Sahid, I will try to take the time to read the book.

You’re a great free thinker, maybe ahead of your time.  The world you paint seems to be the one we have been promised when all things are made new.    

The "non-violent" position the early Christians, MLK, Jr. Gandhi, etc. took were wise.  They had few alternatives, considering they had no other resources of power.  Would this strategic tactic, this policy of passive resistance always work for a super power like the U.S.?  In other words, would this type of passive or diplomatic stance have stopped Hitler?  These types of questions are the reason why I make reference to the Serenity Prayer.

Peace out,

Mark

 

  Dear God,
Grant me the serenity to accept
the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the
things I can;
And wisdom to
know the difference.

Post Edited (sparknheart) : 4/16/2005 2:05:11 PM (GMT-5)

I appreciate your listening to my craziness.  I admit that I am one of the few who has been fortunate enough not to be bothered very often by "harsh reality" and so I have the luxury of holding what some would consider utopian ideals.

 

Just to whet your appetite the book is about a community (and more specifically one man) who used non-violence to save hundreds (if not thousands) from Hitler during WWII.  Your question was whether my stance would stop Hitler.  I doubt it.  But violence is no better.  On our way to Hitler we fire-bombed Dresden, a high population, non-military target.  As the Allies retook Europe they left concentration camps running in their wake that could have been shut down to no strategical disadvantage.  WWII era America was little better than Nazi Germany.  We have our own share of genocide, our own cencentration camps, our own examples of torture.  We had the sense to do our evil from a greater distance that time, but often we don't.

 

He who lives by the sword...  Just participating in the cycle, even with the best intentions, will result in unforeseen results, the very least of which are mental and emotional issues after the fact (and I think we'd agree that those are anything but insignificant).  I recently read an article in a Christian ethics periodical that told first hand the story of an American in Iraq whose job was to send in coordinates for bombings.  He watched while the third-shift grunts working at an Iraqi factory died after being propelled out of what used to be their place of employment (in Baghdad there's a fair chance that some of them where Christians).  Middle aged out-of-shape guys with wives, kids, and mortgages to take care of.  Even if there was a way to target only the guilty and to minimize all the negative consequences, America has proven time and again that it is not up to that task.  We kill our target and a good number of people along the way.  We kill for self interest.  "Why not rather be wronged?"  We need to be careful that we do not become the dragon.

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Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Post Edited (Sahid) : 4/16/2005 2:12:27 PM (GMT-5)

 

2.  Sparknpark listed some reasons that the U.S. may have had to remove Saddam from power.

 

3.  You inexplicitly namedrop a couple of African regions.

 

4.  Spanknfrank and I made an assumption that the namedropping was related to the current discussion.

 

Obviously we were wrong.