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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Ethics, etc. > "You can't legislate morality!" | Forum Quick Jump
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Sahid
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 12/16/2005 7:59 PM (GMT -6) |   | I personally think the 1 Corinthians teaching is situational. Paul is going over their laundry list of issues and he points out the parts that he thinks are authoritative (from the Lord). This isn't one of those parts. Also, as far as wives submitting, I agree that they should submit. But just like slavery is a picture of our relationship to Christ, marriage is another. At the time it was ok to own people and wives were legally the property of their husbands. That Paul compares these situations to our relationship with Jesus does not mean he condones those relationships in every aspect.
I don't see a problem with Ephesians either. Wives should submit to husbands. And husbands should love their wives like Christ loves the Church. "Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself." That is just how a husband should love.
Maybe some of the things in Ephesians and Corinthians are wrong (in Corinthians Paul makes it very clear that not all of it is from the Lord), but there is definitely much to be learned from them. I do believe that "all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." I just don't believe it's the authoritative word of God.
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 12/21/2005 2:31 PM (GMT -6) | |
Sahid said...
I do believe that "all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." I just don't believe it's the authoritative word of God.
Hello Sahid,
With consideration to your above post, what's your take on the following verse?
Ananias and Sapphira
1 But a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; 2 with his wife's knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 "Ananias," Peter asked, "why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!" 5 Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it.
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. Post Edited (sparknheart) : 12/21/2005 1:37:57 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 12/23/2005 12:09 AM (GMT -6) | |
Sahid said...Well, Luke seems like a pretty reliable guy. My guess is that it happened like the passage says it did. It's a bad thing to lie.
Zach,
would you say it was a direct act of God that both Ananias and Sapphria were struck down dead?
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/27/2005 10:46 AM (GMT -6) | | I've always stayed away from this thread, because of the title. Its so "80's" and reminds me of the days when Jerry Falwell was putting together the Moral Majority. Too hashed over...
But here's a thought. "Legislating" ONLY has to do with laws. (You can legistlate morality--especially if you back it up with capital punishment--the acts diminish with the actors.)
But there are OTHER areas, that don't exactly fit this thread's title, that DO have relevance, are important, and touch everyone's life.
Church Discipline is what I'm thinking of.
We follow "legislation" (Church Order) by "discerning the Lord's Body" and ONLY allowing those who are truly able to come to the Table and partake of Chirst's body and blood. Those unrepentant cannnot approach the throne of heaven, and would only recieve bread and wine, AND condemnation (Not from us, so we can't quibble!)
We practice church order when we confess our sins to each other (pl.), and when we seek out those we've offended, or were offended by. This "legislation" is not written by us, but by the Lord.
But it truly, truly, truly affects "morality."
(o) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 12/31/2005 11:03 AM (GMT -6) | |
Sahid said...The passage you are referring to never says that God struck anyone dead. I wont either.
Sahid, In your estimation what killed them? If it wasn't an act of God then what was it?
It was not by Peter's words, nor through Peter's prayers, nor through shame, nor through remorse, that this guilty pair died, but by an immediate judgment of God.—Adam Clarke's Commentary
This is the first time it is mentioned: and here is a native specimen of a New Testament Church; which is a company of men, called by the Gospel, grafted into Christ by baptism, animated by love, united by all kind of fellowship, and disciplined by the death of Ananias and Sapphira. —Wesley's Commentary<!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment-->
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 1/1/2006 7:02 PM (GMT -6) | |
Sahid said...Spark: Sahid, In your estimation what killed them? If it wasn't an act of God then what was it? Sahid: I don't know. It might have been direct divine intervention. Or maybe not. I don't know how Adam Clark became so certain that it was the immediate judgment of God, but the Bible didn't tell him that. Maybe God spoke to him in a dream. I personally have had no dream giving me the answer to this question, so I can't pretend to know more about the event than Acts reports.
Regardless if Ananias and Sapphira were stuck down by divine intervention or if it was some other strange set of circumstances. The point is, if you do believe in "divine intervention" at all, in any form, then how you could ever square anything short of an infallible Bible. How could God ever let someone write untruths about Himself? If God were ever to intervene on something, would it not be to protect the truth? Most lies are laced with a thread of truth, so if the Bible is not the infallible word of God then you might as well claim it's inspired by the father of lies.
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/1/2006 6:07:38 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 1/3/2006 5:20 PM (GMT -6) | | | Spark: Regardless if Ananias and Sapphira were stuck down by divine intervention or if it was some other strange set of circumstances. The point is, if you do believe in "divine intervention" at all, in any form, then how you could ever square anything short of an infallible Bible. How could God ever let someone write untruths about Himself? If God were ever to intervene on something, would it not be to protect the truth? Most lies are laced with a thread of truth, so if the Bible is not the infallible word of God then you might as well claim it's inspired by the father of lies.
Zach: God does let people write untruths about himself. This is not proof that he never intervenes. If you believe in an infallible Bible, my question is "Why?" I believe that the Bible is "God-breathed," just like Adam was God-breathed. God took a sculpted lump of clay and made it alive. He also took a collection of error-filled books and made them alive. God's Word can speak through all sorts of mediums: a person, a book, nature... but that doesn't mean that God's Word is that person or book. Jesus is the Logos, the Word. Even today people "diligently study the scriptures because [they] think that by them [they] possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about [Jesus], yet [they] refuse to come to [him] to have life.
In one sense the father of lies has inspired scripture. We might say he is the ultimate cause for error in the Bible. But since when does Satan get the last word? There is almost always something to be learned even from the most non-Christ-like passages in the Bible.
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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