By way of extension, destruction of one's moral, social, political, or business life, by one's own act; ruin of one's plans or interests, because of one's own neglect or action.

 

"Moral and justified suicide, whether by one individual, or inmass, puts in place an immediate stop to exploitation/enslavement, by those who exhist only to exploit, and enslave an other or a mass of individuals. If the slave/prisoner has sucessfully escaped, then their physical body, mind, sacred wholly spirit of emotions, and/ or soul, their true intent and purpose deeply rooted in Godly and Juste values, can no longer be distorted and exploited for the criminal mindset of any inhueman criminal, and his/her filthy, immoral, and perverse setonistic agenda."

 

Romanovae'

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 The Mockwitz' Sing on the Majestic 13th Story!

 

 

Are there cases where suicide can't be rationalized in this way??? 

For the depressed, Satan's warfare over the mind....

For the addict, same same....

I don't know man, it's tough.

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Peace,
ATW

 

Imagine the worst conflict you've ever had with another person. Now intensify it maximally and apply it to each person you meet. Given enough time, I can imagine having this maximum conflict with everyone! One will discover that there is nobody and nothing anywhere that can satisfy one's burning drive for his deepest needs. He'll see that all is vanity.

Post Edited (Corey) : 6/18/2005 10:18:25 AM (GMT-5)

 

Theologically, human beings were not created (pre-Fall) with mental dispositional displacements which contribute to skewed thinking. Meph has argued elsewhere (universal threads) and indirectly in this post("they are trapped in self-deceit and erroneous cognitive maps") that humanity currently operates in an irrational and misplaced spiritual and mental capacity. I concur. Theologically, humanity was never supposed to have been placed into a sphere of existence where mental, emotional and spiritual quandries and predicaments exist due to chaotic disturbance in the human environment. What this means is that humanity, in its pre-Fall existence, would never have even given thought about suicide. The imperative,  "Don't go there" would have been answered with the interrogative, "Where is there to go?" The same issue applies when we talk about abortion; our theological pre-Fall existence would never entailed contemplation about, or acts of, abortion. Thus, we are outside of our original domain, and that cannot be forgotten when we address these kinds of topics. In no greater way are we reminded of this then by the First Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill. Literally: Thou Shalt Not Murder. Killing is inevitable; murder is not (one may have to kill to prevent murder...amazingly). This makes neither killing nor murder the original framework, but it gives us a clue toward resolution for the issue of suicide.

 

Since we are in this skewed domain, we are forced to address and engage many issues that are abnormal to our desire for an undisturbed (healthy) spiritual and mental life. In this current state of chaos, what is important before God, I believe, is the heart. Relationships are based on and determined by the heart, in all of its mixed-emotions, disturbances and chaotic elements. Even one's relationship with one's self is based on the heart. Where mental faculties are skewed, inhibited or damaged, however, all the more attention is focused on the heart. The heart can still shine forefront despite mental, emotional or physical incapacity. This is why God did not say, "Thou Shalt Not Kill."  In the case of murder, however, all elements of the person's being are affected. The heart is hardened or pushed to the back in order to allow the mind, emotions and physical to act out. In the case of killing, the softness of the heart may very well be in the forefront, but the mind sees the "need" to overrule the heart (abortion of the fetus in order to save the mother's life). This slight difference is, I believe, how God looks at these kinds of situations. It is how He must look upon these matters, for that is all we have to offer Him. Not to appease Him or gain justification, but to operate in this chaotic mixture of good and evil in a way that can progress out of it.

 

A person may lay down his life for another, something Jesus taught as the most noble demonstration of love. Indeed, this is seen most clearly in His own death. He gives His life for the sake of others. (It can be argued that He was murdered, but Jesus Himself made it clear that He alone lays down His life; no one takes it from Him. The manner in which He is slain, therefore, is insignificant as regards this topic). Jesus was on a suicidal mission; His ultimate path was to allow for the taking of His life. As a matter of fact, so certain was His destiny that Peter is rebuked for trying to intervene. Peter's reasons may have been misplaced, in that He has different expectations about the coming Messiah than Jesus, but he was rebuked more so for ANY interference with Jesus' destiny. Jesus did not directly kill Himself, but what is the difference when to die is the destiny. The path was clear, the destiny set in stone, and no one, but no one, was going to Stop Him. Death was the bed which He was determined to lie in.

 

To sum up, God looks on the heart. Suicide is not always a heaven or hell issue. (For those who do not hold to universalism, the arrogant, "I'll show you, God" attitude that demonstrates defiance in the most costic way by suicide, that person is considered eternally lost. I, however, am talking about those people who know the Lord as Savior and such but are overwhelmed with life, with mental disturbance, with broken hearts, with physical incapacitation that they cannot take life anymore and opt out by suicide.) God looks on the heart. And where He sees horrible chaos, disburbance and incapacity in His children, it is not a heaven or hell issue to Him; it is a relationship issue. Why would we think that it isn't? Do we not display the same sorrow and pain as parents or friends who loose someone to suicide because they were overwhelmed with life or overfuled by mental disturbance or physical pain? Do we immediately  assign them to the pits of hell, fire and brimstone because they couldn't hold out for healing or death by its own accord? We certainly cannot condem because the Bible teaches such. We, too, must look upon the heart as best as we are able.

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My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?"  Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us?

 

That's my packing-the-house-up-mad-busy-gettting-ready-to-move point of view.

Tom

did this for no better reason than thrill-seeking: wanting to prove to God and themselves that they could handle it.  Is this a better reason than eminent loss of control or pain?  Are we saying that masochism is holy?  In Jesus' case there was some joy set before him.  Isn't this the case of your everyday teenage suicide?

 

If I hold a loaded gun to my head and pull the trigger I am less sure to die than Jesus was by giving himself up at the garden.  If we want to call suicide a sin, we had better make sure that our definition of suicide doesn't describe one of Jesus' more famous actions.