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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 12/5/2003 5:59 AM (GMT -6) |   | http://www.bupipedream.com/102803/wire/w8pf.htm
Hormones only part of gender
By Beth Aaron
University Daily (Texas Tech U.)
(U-WIRE) LUBBOCK, Texas -- A recent study conducted during the early developing stages of mice shows estrogen and testosterone -- female and male hormones -- are not completely responsible for determining gender. Dr. Randolph Schiffer, chairman of the neuropsychiatry department at Texas Tech University's Health Sciences Center, said though the findings are interesting, they may not be applicable to complex human brains.
But Schiffer said there is a definite difference between male and female human brains.
"Male brains are different from female brains independent from hormone levels," he said. "Which is a big finding."
Schiffer said female brains are smaller than male brains, which means female brains contain fewer cells than male brains. When compared, the two brains have different reception patterns and a different pattern of the distribution of functions. Men and women receive stimulus differently and go about completing actions differently.
"They're not big, but there are differences," he said. "We don't know what that means," he said. "Does that mean a woman can't be a fighter pilot or a Ninja Turtle? No."
Schiffer said there are no conclusive biological studies determining a male or female place in society, but society has continued to define gender roles over the years.
"What it means to be male or female changes with our generation," he said.
Schiffer said the roles actors and actresses portray on screen are clear windows into gender roles. He cited that in the 1930s, female heroines were wimpy when compared to characters such as today's Charlie's Angels. On the other hand, he said male roles have softened a bit but have changed much less than their female counterparts.
Schiffer said though male and female brains are different, there is no concrete evidence showing that this has anything to do with a person's sexual orientation, only gender.
"Genes alone never drive a disease or identity," he said. "(People) are very sensitive to psychological and cultural issues. Genes alone will never be the answer to it."
Rosemary Cogan, professor of psychology, said there is a difference between the terms sexual identity and sexual orientation. She said sexual identity is simply whether a person is male or female, while sexual orientation is whether a person is attracted to males or females.
"There's a whole lot that has to be separated out of three concepts that are different," she said. "Gender identity is a sense of being male or female, anatomy determines whether someone is male or female and sexual orientation determines whether someone is heterosexual or homosexual."
Cogan said though there has been a lot of research on the topic, their findings have not been agreed upon in scientific and social circles.
"What's really interesting right now is there are a lot of studies about the biology of sexual orientation," she said. "Genetic and biological studies are very interesting and provocative."
Cogan said if biological proof for a person's sexual orientation is found in time, she said it is important to define the reasons not only for feelings of homosexuality, but heterosexuality as well.
"Everyone has a sexual orientation," she said. "It's really a problem of explaining sexual orientation."
Cogan said she believes biology coupled with exposure and life experience determines whom a person is ultimately attracted to.
"My hunch is there is going to be a biological component that is going to be a factor for some people, but not all," she said.
Amanda Henley, a freshman studio art major from Houston, said she too believes sexual orientation is determined by both nature and nurture. She said whether or not biologists determine a person's sexual orientation is scientific, the findings will not explain the whole population's affinity for one sex over the other.
"Some could be gene-related," she said. "But for some people, it could be who you hang with."
Henley said she believes a person's life experience could also be a determinant of sexual identity, as well as whether or not they are accepting of identities that differ from their own.
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 12/5/2003 4:55 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by DLW
Well, when you come up with scientific papers that explore that thesis, let us know...
dlw
How about the Bible?
Jim | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/5/2003 6:34 PM (GMT -6) | | | According to DLW the Bible doesn't discuss homosexuality so it doesn't qualify. | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 12/5/2003 7:32 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by honorman
According to DLW the Bible doesn't discuss homosexuality so it doesn't qualify.
Yes, that is what he has said on other posts. Somehow homosexuality is orientation, and it should be translated as "homosexual acts". But the way I understand homosexuality is the practice of those "homosexual acts". That is what the word homosexuality means to me.
<><
Jim | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/5/2003 9:41 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 12/24/2003 1:23 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by DLW
Would it matter if Paul or Jesus knew that someone had been afflicted with constitutional homosexuality?
dlw
DLW,
In terms of how they related to this person, no. I would say that it would not matter to them. In terms of their encouragement to Christian living, yes. I believe they would tell that person not to act on those feelings.
quote:
DLW: How should we best deal with people who have this problem?
Do these people see this as a problem? Do they seek change? I think that would have an impact on how we deal with it. But generally we should plant the seed of truth in them by sharing the gospel with them and let God take care of convicting them enough where they are broken and come up hungry for His grace.
<><
Jim
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 12/25/2003 6:17 AM (GMT -6) | | DLW,
In terms of how they related to this person, no. I would say that it would not matter to them. In terms of their encouragement to Christian living, yes. I believe they would tell that person not to act on those feelings.
Jim,
It is more than feelings. It is one's orientation.
Do these people see this as a problem? Do they seek change? I think that would have an impact on how we deal with it. But generally we should plant the seed of truth in them by sharing the gospel with them and let God take care of convicting them enough where they are broken and come up hungry for His grace.
Jim,
Experience has proven that it is difficult for constitutional homosexuals to change. It can happen, but they have to be both really motivated and have a good deal of support. We can't mandate for them to be the former but we can try to provide the latter.
However, in our outreach to homosexuals, we need to understand as much as possible about the facts concerning homosexuality, as contemporarily understood. Otherwise, our ministry may be tragically flawed.
dlw
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 12/27/2003 1:21 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by DLW
Jim,
It is more than feelings. It is one's orientation.
Yes, I know what you mean, it is somthing internal and not just on the surface, yet Jesus said to the adulterous woman, "go and sin no more" despite her orientation. And something as internal as you say constitutional homosexuality is, I think, needs all the more dependency on Jesus Christ for renewing the mind.
quote:
Jim,
Experience has proven that it is difficult for constitutional homosexuals to change. It can happen, but they have to be both really motivated and have a good deal of support. We can't mandate for them to be the former but we can try to provide the latter.
Well, one problem is that they are teaching children in public schools this very thing, that it is something that cannot be changed! That is, if you feel like you like someone of the same sex it is something that you were born with and cannot change and therefore you should pursue it. That is a terrible mistake, and it has eternal consequences. I would not want to be the person who teaches children that they cannot change and they should embrace whatever sexual feelings they have. Jesus said that if anyone causes a little one to fall away, it would be better if they hang a stone around their necks and be thrown into the sea than to face judgement day. I hope you do not encourage that in any way, shape or form.
Yes, of course it will be difficult! We are dealing with spiritual warfare, and fallen flesh. As David Johnson (Pastor of Open Door Church) puts it..."renewing of the mind is, 1. Intentional, 2. Relational, and 3. Supernatural"
The mandate is in the Word. Romans 12:2 - Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Again,
Intentionally
Relationally
Supernaturally
quote:
However, in our outreach to homosexuals, we need to understand as much as possible about the facts concerning homosexuality, as contemporarily understood. Otherwise, our ministry may be tragically flawed.
dlw
I don't think we need to totally understand homosexuality to understand the homosexual. I don't think we need to totally understand the act to understand the actor. Like when I was a sex addict I looked at thousands of pornographic images. Everybody knows that pornography is wrong, the act is wrong. But why was I acting on this. I could say that it was my orientation, i.e. I liked women, but that is irrelevant because it is God who said that sexuality should not be like that. What a blessing that I became broken! That lead me to the cross. So through fellowship with people who are grace-filled and love-laced, He moved in my life and renewed my mind! We need to be grace-filled and love-laced to the homosexual, not the homosexuality. There is a difference I believe.
<><
Jim
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 12/28/2003 5:47 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Jim_Mottl
quote:
Originally posted by DLW
Jim,
It is more than feelings. It is one's orientation.
Yes, I know what you mean, it is somthing internal and not just on the surface, yet Jesus said to the adulterous woman, "go and sin no more" despite her orientation. And something as internal as you say constitutional homosexuality is, I think, needs all the more dependency on Jesus Christ for renewing the mind.
The adulterous woman likely had a heterosexual orientation. She had marriage as a non-sinful outlet for this orientation.
Experience has shown that it is very difficult for homosexuals to renew their mind/brain's chemistry. I am not sure what you mean by this, but please understand that life-time celibacy may be beyond what some can bear.
quote:
quote:
Jim,
Experience has proven that it is difficult for constitutional homosexuals to change. It can happen, but they have to be both really motivated and have a good deal of support. We can't mandate for them to be the former but we can try to provide the latter.
Well, one problem is that they are teaching children in public schools this very thing, that it is something that cannot be changed! That is, if you feel like you like someone of the same sex it is something that you were born with and cannot change and therefore you should pursue it. That is a terrible mistake, and it has eternal consequences. I would not want to be the person who teaches children that they cannot change and they should embrace whatever sexual feelings they have. Jesus said that if anyone causes a little one to fall away, it would be better if they hang a stone around their necks and be thrown into the sea than to face judgement day. I hope you do not encourage that in any way, shape or form.
One's sexual orientation is different from the sexual conduct. It is true that many within the homosexual community espouse a biological determinism that applies to their sinful lifestyles and many advocate a very radical view towards the social mores that have guided our sexual lives(i.e., they are oppressive and people should have libertarian freedom, so long as they don't hurt anyone(rather vaguely defined)). I am opposed to both biological determinism(I am an open view theist, after all.) and libertarian denial of the need for public social mores over our sexual lives.
quote:
Yes, of course it will be difficult! We are dealing with spiritual warfare, and fallen flesh. As David Johnson (Pastor of Open Door Church) puts it..."renewing of the mind is, 1. Intentional, 2. Relational, and 3. Supernatural"
The mandate is in the Word. Romans 12:2 - Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Again,
Intentionally
Relationally
Supernaturally
Part of doing what is right in this world is also an exercise of discernment about what can and cannot be changed, as illustrated by Reinhold Niebuhr's serenity prayer. My point is that in many cases, there is little that can be done about someone's sexual orientation. It is largely determined prior to birth.
quote:
quote:
However, in our outreach to homosexuals, we need to understand as much as possible about the facts concerning homosexuality, as contemporarily understood. Otherwise, our ministry may be tragically flawed.
dlw
I don't think we need to totally understand homosexuality to understand the homosexual. I don't think we need to totally understand the act to understand the actor. Like when I was a sex addict I looked at thousands of pornographic images. Everybody knows that pornography is wrong, the act is wrong. But why was I acting on this. I could say that it was my orientation, i.e. I liked women, but that is irrelevant because it is God who said that sexuality should not be like that. What a blessing that I became broken! That lead me to the cross. So through fellowship with people who are grace-filled and love-laced, He moved in my life and renewed my mind! We need to be grace-filled and love-laced to the homosexual, not the homosexuality. There is a difference I believe.
<><
Jim
We do understand sex-addiction and what sort of treatment and psychological motivation can overcome it. However, homosexuality is different. It is more difficult to overcome. Experience has shown that to be the case and we now understand why that is so better. We need to demonstrate this knowledged in our love-laced behavior towards the homosexual. Plus, by demonstrating that we understand the science behind homosexuality better than most, it also grants more legitimacy to a heterosexist position that holds that the different sexual orientations are not equal.
dlw
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
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