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Corey
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   Posted 3/21/2011 10:05 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom said, "I'd love to start a Trinity & Process discussion room here." ... and voila!
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Tom
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   Posted 3/21/2011 10:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Awesome!

T


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Tom
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   Posted 3/21/2011 10:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How many of us have read this thing? There's me, D, Corey, Asher, Brandon, and...

...Jeff? I think Jeff has it. Maybe not. But if five of us wanna start that's VERY cool.

Tom


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Asher
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   Posted 3/21/2011 4:48 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Man, this thing is so rich, there's unlimited discussion all the way through it. What were you thinking with regards to organization or direction, Tom?

Anyone who is interested in joining in that hasn't read the book yet can get it relatively cheap at Amazon right now.

$10.63

or it's actually selling for $3.24 at Half.com

That's as cheap as I have found this book, ever. It's not a bad investment either. You could read it for $3.24 (plus shipping) and resell it. It's been averaging around $60 lately, down from around $100. Normally, I'd probably snatch it up myself at that price (since I'm in the biz), but anyone who needs one can get a great deal right now.
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Tom
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   Posted 3/21/2011 5:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow! I paid like $55.00 for mine. Rats.

I think we could start at the beginning and just work through. Maybe we could summarize CH's six a priori truths, wich explanation and THEN talk about what parts of them Greg changes and what Greg ends up with.

Actually, Greg has his own nice summary right at the end, doesn't he? Maybe posting that would be good.

But it's just littered with insights throughout. You almost have to take it section by section and point out the insights one by one.

Tom


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Tom
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   Posted 3/21/2011 8:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I’d love to try to work through it. Not sure the best way. We could agree on a regular reading schedule with discussion sandwiched in between. For example, set a date by which time Chapter One has to be read. Then we jump online and discuss it until we feel like we’re done. Then we set a date for having Chapter Two read and discuss it until we feel like we’re done. And so forth.

 

We could begin discussion of each chapter by having somebody prepare a summary and then open it up for comments and discussion. We could take turns posting those summaries.

 

Here’s a brief boiled down outline:

Introduction

Part One: Six Foundational A Priori Truths of CH’S System

Chapter I: The First Four A Priori Truths

Chapter II: The Fifth and Sixth A Priori Truths

Chapter III: A Critical Evaluation of the Six Foundational A Priori Truths of CH’S System

Summary of Part One

 

Part Two: Six Theistic Arguments of CH’S System

Chapter IV: The Ontological and Cosmological Arguments (the Logic of Perfection and Di-Polar Theism)

Summary of IV

Chapter V: The Design and Epistemic Arguments (the Omnipotence and Omniscience of God)

Summary of V

Chapter VI: The Moral and Aesthetic Arguments (The Goodness and Beauty of God)

Conclusion

 

The six theistic arguments of Part Two correspond to the six a priori truths of Part One. He presents CH’s position (di-polar theism) and critically evaluates it as he goes, correcting and reconstructing along the way. It lays out nicely.

 

You’ve got six chapters. And each chapter divides up into sections: Ch. 1 with five, Ch. 2 with three, Ch. 3 with seven, Ch. 4 with five, Ch. 5 with eight, Ch. 6 with eight. What we should probably do is agree upon thread headings that correspond to Chapter and section headings. Some sections don’t take up much room and others are pretty substantial. We could bite off as much as we want to work on. What we’d like to end up with is a list of threads whose titles correspond to the outline so that we’ve got something nice.

 

If you want, I’ll draw up a few examples and if it’s OK, we’ll start. It might move slowly between now and June. But we can pig out on it in the summer!

 

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 3/21/2011 9:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I never caught the book while it was cheap. So I still haven't read it. But I would love to see discussions of it anyway.


 

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Similitude
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   Posted 3/21/2011 9:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ordered it.


 

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Tom
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   Posted 3/22/2011 6:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Awesome. Jeff's in.

For keeping things organized (without being anal), let's just put the chapter number followed by a colon first in the title of any thread we begin, like this:

1: Necessary & Categorical Truths.
1: What's "a priori" mean anyway?
2: Experience Occurs.
6: Divine Beauty--Such a beautiful argument!

The chapter number will help us organize them later if we wanna download 'em. And we can have as many threads about a chapter as we want. The little descriptor after the colon will let us know exactly what's in that thread.

We'll give Jeff a couple weeks to get his copy and read into, then...

...yeah baby!

Some of us will see Greg this Saturday for dinner and I'll ask him about the funky missing lines. I also wanna ask him if he'll drop in from time to time if we need him to comment on this discussion. Can't get any better than having the author explain he meant. Plus Dwayne and I love trapping him in his own words! Hahaha!

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 3/22/2011 6:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ya'll can get ahead of me. Just try to write where I can follow you, if you don't mind. biggrin


 

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 3/23/2011 6:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sweet!  I like your suggestion Tommy:
 
We could agree on a regular reading schedule with discussion sandwiched in between. For example, set a date by which time Chapter One has to be read. Then we jump online and discuss it until we feel like we’re done. Then we set a date for having Chapter Two read and discuss it until we feel like we’re done. And so forth.
 
I'm in!  I'll check it out from the U.  Also, if you want Tommy, I can send you the pages I sent to Asher regarding the mysterious missing text.  Seems like there may be different editions out there.  Also, how about the reading schedule allow for the information to sink in?  I've noticed that in my reading, sometimes I'll understand what an author is saying by reading from the middle or the back of the book before the beginning.  So all I'm saying is to read over the particular chapters a few times.  Yes?  So maybe a two week period between chapters?  Of course as we jump into it, we'll be absorbing the material as well.


Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa

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Tom
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   Posted 3/25/2011 3:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sounds good!

Let's plan on a start date of Friday, April 8, for Ch. 1. That's two weeks ago. That'll give Jeff time to read too.

Tom


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Tom
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   Posted 3/27/2011 8:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Where are you guys seeing it cheap on amazon?

Tom


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Tom
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   Posted 3/27/2011 8:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
$60+ on amazon is the cheapest I see. And $80 the cheapest on half.com.

Hmmm.

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 3/28/2011 6:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They never last long. That's why I finally broke down and jumped on a $22 copy. The next lowest at the time was about $60. Asher is a professional good price finder!


 

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Tom
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   Posted 3/28/2011 6:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, I have my copy, but somebody on another board asked me about it. I thought amazon's own price had dropped to $10.

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 3/31/2011 6:05 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I'm beginning to wonder if my book order fell through the cracks. But have ya'll seen this one? Unfortunately, it's expensive too. Just wondering if he covers Greg's ground.

The One, the Many, and the Trinity: Joseph A. Bracken and the Challenge of Process Metaphysics [Hardcover]

Marc A. Pugliese <input id=contributorASINB003Z2OKV0 value=B003Z2OKV0 type=hidden> <script type=text/javascript> amznJQ.onReady('bylinePopover', function () {}); </script> (Author)


 

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Tom
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   Posted 3/31/2011 7:31 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bracken is good. He's Catholic. Where Greg reconstructs Harrshorne to get to a trinitarian metaphysics, Bracken reconstructs Whitehead. But he seems more committed to process than Greg. So there's definitely a more 'process' flavor to him than there is to Greg. I've got this and several others by him, and he never mentions Greg.

Since Greg's book is his PhD thesis, it's full of original thoughts you won't find elsewhere.

I feel like finding a clean copy of Greg's from the library and then paying a high schooler $20 to scan the whole thing for me. Then we'll have a "desk" copy to use.

Tom


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Tom
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   Posted 3/31/2011 5:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Was just re-reading TP pages 179-195 (Part II, the Ontological and Cosmological Arguments). Dude, priceless. Really well argued. I don't know how to make any sense of atheism.

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 3/31/2011 9:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
... neither can any atheist I've ever dialogued with.
 
BTW, I'm beggining to think my order didn't complete. I have nothing from Amazon or anything. Don't you get an email when you order used books from Amazon?


 

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Tom
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   Posted 4/1/2011 7:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I always get an email confirmation. Hmmm. Order it again!!!!

Tom


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Similitude
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   Posted 4/3/2011 11:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's long gone. The cheap ones never last long. I'll check again to see if I can't lucky again though.


 

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Tom
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   Posted 4/4/2011 7:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'll figure out something. Maybe I'll scan or photocopy mine.

Racking Frack (#$%^! Stinkin #*)@!$...

;o)


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Similitude
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   Posted 4/5/2011 6:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

No way, Tom. You don't have time for that. Heck, I'll pay $60 if I need to. After, you say it's the WORD OF GOD! So it must be worth $60! biggrin

Ya'll go ahead and start your discussion. If by the end of this week I don't see a better deal, I'll just bite the bullet. Who knows maybe God will get the cheaper ones to those who can't afford the more expensive ones--it's all good.


 

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Tom
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   Posted 4/5/2011 6:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeff, gimme your email, I've got the first chapter or two scanned and online. I just need to share them with your email. Easy.

Tom


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