 |
Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
| Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/15/2009 9:55 AM (GMT -6) |   | |
In case this turns into something, let it be over here and not over on the annihilationism thread.
-------------------------
D: Let's talk about the nature of the Eucharist (Communion) and it's link with deification (theosis). Memorialism or Christ's Real Presence?
C: Both/And.
Then again, isn't Christ's Real Presence even here, even now -- in the mundane lives of believers?
Maybe they should say, "Christ's Real-Special Presence" and argue that he's more present in the Eucharist, or something. But that doesn't make any sense, does it, unless you want to argue for a two-storey view.
So then if Christ's Real Presence is not unique to the Eucharist, what makes it special is the meaning of the event: we do this "in remembrance of me."
---------------------------
Tom: On the Eucharist, Corey...
Mmmwwahahahahah! Yes. It is both/and. Love your comments.
T | | Back to Top | | |
 |
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/15/2009 10:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Hmmm...
Alrighty then.
D: Let's talk about the nature of the Eucharist (Communion) and it's link with deification (theosis). Memorialism or Christ's Real Presence?
C: Both/And.
Then again, isn't Christ's Real Presence even here, even now -- in the mundane lives of believers?
Maybe they should say, "Christ's Real-Special Presence" and argue that he's more present in the Eucharist, or something. But that doesn't make any sense, does it, unless you want to argue for a two-storey view.
So then if Christ's Real Presence is not unique to the Eucharist, what makes it special is the meaning of the event: we do this "in remembrance of me."
Actually, I'd flip things a little bit. Whenever we partake of ANYTHING, we should be doing it "in remembrance of" Christ. What food that we eat should NOT remind us of God's broken body? What drink that we drink should NOT remind of of God's spilling blood? In short, when is a time, by faith through grace, is a good time NOT to be aware of Christ's Risen Omniscient Spiritual and Physical Presence? If we were thinking differently, we'd be "walking Eucharists" all the time.
To me, the Eucharist is, in part, about providing the context for the deepest experience the Church's "union with Christ" possible and it's individual and corporate reception of Grace, using all elements of our make-up, including the physical.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life." Post Edited (One Love) : 2/15/2009 9:04:03 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
|
Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/15/2009 10:30 AM (GMT -6) | | I don’t disagree that all creation is replete with the presence of Christ and properly contemplated can deepen our awareness and experience of God’s presence. Cool.
But Jesus did establish the form, content, and meaning of communion in a way that was to function meaningfully for the Body, right? As a means of grace for the Body, like you said? But that sets its celebration off from other events. So while all things might remind you of God and make you a walking act of thankfulness. It's not the case, for now at least, that the community of the Body can be brought to corporte unity (in celebration, contemplation, and participation) around just any old created thing. Not everything reminds us equally of the same things. Apple pie reminds me of my Mom, not of the Iraq War. But HumVs remind me of this place and not my Mom. If I wanted to get a large group of people to remember a particular historical event and contemplate its meaning for their lives, I would carefully pick elements associated with that event (even if the event was an event in the life of an omnipresent person). Those sorts of associations are just how we work, right? I think Christ knew this and utilized it as a means by which the Body together comes to celebrate and confirm the gospel as it participates in the healing presence of Christ. That healing/sanctifying presence IS everywhere, yes, but Communion’s form, content, and meaning are basically prescribed for us by Christ and linked tangibly to a specific event. That's what we're to focus on. It’s a social utilitity. Perhaps that's why there’s a need to prescribe its form and content.
T | | Back to Top | | |
|
Corey
Five with a Four-wing
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893
| Posted 2/15/2009 10:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Well said, Tom.
D, explain further how the Eucharist is "the deepest experience the Church's 'union with Christ' possible"? I suspect the difference is the form and meaning of the elements, like Tom said.
I don't think you're saying that Christ is somehow more present in the Eucharist than in mundane life. Or am I mistaken? If I'm wrong, then please help me understand what's different about his presence in the Eucharist. Post Edited (Corey) : 2/15/2009 9:54:04 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/15/2009 12:03 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
I don’t disagree that all creation is replete with the presence of Christ and properly contemplated can deepen our awareness and experience of God’s presence. Cool.
Good. Contemplatin' those "logoi" and stuff...yeah.
*********************************************
Tom:
Jesus did establish the form, content, and meaning of communion in a way that was to function meaningfully for the Body, right? As a means of grace for the Body, like you said? But that sets its celebration off from other events. So while all things might remind you of God and make you a walking act of thankfulness. It's not the case, for now at least, that the community of the Body can be brought to corporte unity (in celebration, contemplation, and participation) around just any old created thing. Not everything reminds us equally of the same things. Apple pie reminds me of my Mom, not of the Iraq War. But HumVs remind me of this place and not my Mom. If I wanted to get a large group of people to remember a particular historical event and contemplate its meaning for their lives, I would carefully pick elements associated with that event (even if the event was an event in the life of an omnipresent person). Those sorts of associations are just how we work, right? I think Christ knew this and utilized it as a means by which the Body together comes to celebrate and confirm the gospel as it participates in the healing presence of Christ. That healing/sanctifying presence IS everywhere, yes, but Communion’s form, content, and meaning are basically prescribed for us by Christ and linked tangibly to a specific event. That's what we're to focus on. It’s a social utilitity. Perhaps that's why there’s a need to prescribe its form and content.
Don't disagree with this at all. I would not be one to say do away with the Eucharist/Divine Liturgy, by no means. No way.
**************************************
Corey:
D, explain further how the Eucharist is "the deepest experience the Church's 'union with Christ' possible"? I suspect the difference is the form and meaning of the elements, like Tom said.
From my perspective, in the Eucharist, a given individual-in-community experiences a context where all aspects of human being, both intelligible (emotions, thoughts) and sensible (five senses), are focused on "taking the Divine Word" into all of those aspects. We know that whatever we take into our bodies becomes a part of us, even as it sustains us. As we believe that the Holy Spirit mediates Grace to all aspects of human being in our partaking of Christ's Life and Presence (historical memory and continuing presence). We are actually becoming one with Christ, "body", "mind", and "spirit." We are ever joined with the Lord epicletically as the Body of Christ.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life." | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/16/2009 8:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
D, where in the Bible do you get the idea that we're to be one "in body" with Jesus?
The EO take on the whole "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you" Scriptural teaching. I guess it's kind of a "you are what you eat" thing. Payton talks about in "Light from the Christian East"
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life." Post Edited (One Love) : 2/16/2009 7:26:11 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 2:29 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|