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Tom
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   Posted 4/8/2009 3:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The French, yeah. But manikin and mannikin are both acceptable alternatives (I think). ;o)

T

Post Edited (Tom) : 4/8/2009 3:58:45 PM (GMT-5)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 4/8/2009 4:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Hopko said that THEOSIS is being nailed to a cross, rejected, abandoned, and STILL loving and foregiving; and we pray THAT in the Lord's Prayer. Emptying.

St. I of L is speaking of a sacrifice. Not speaking of an abandonment  of self. I suppose sacrifice has to be ongoing...

So I do NOT see any Mannequin.in that; just kenosis.

Christ did NOT become a Mannequin!

Neither are we called to do that. "Just" kenosis!   

("just" jumpin )

 
One Love said...
Tom,

What did you think about St. Ignatius of Loyola's prayer?

"TAKE, O Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my whole will. Thou hast given me all that I am and all that I possess: I surrender it all to Thee that Thou mayest dispose of it according to Thy will. Give me only Thy love and Thy grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will have no more to desire. Amen."

Would you pray that prayer every moment of your life? If not, why not? What do you think about someone who would pray that every moment?



(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 4/8/2009 4:24:20 PM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenosis is plerosis.

:-)


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Whole thread


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenosis
 
In Christian theology, Kenosis is the concept of the 'self-emptying' of one's own will and becoming entirely receptive to God and his perfect will. It is used both as an explanation of the Incarnation, and an indication of the nature of God's activity and condescension. Mystical theologian John of the Cross' work "Dark Night of the Soul" is a particularly lucid explanation of God's process of transforming the believer into the icon or "likeness of Christ".
 
and...
 
The Orthodox Mystical Theology of the East emphasises following the example of Christ. Kenosis is only possible through humility and presupposes that one seeks union with God. The Poustinia tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church is one major expression of this search.
Kenosis is not only a Christological issue in Orthodox theology, it has moreover to do with Pneumatology, namely to do with the Holy Spirit. Kenosis, relative to the human nature, denotes the continual epiklesis and self-denial of one's own human will and desire. With regards to Christ, there is a kenosis of the Son of God, a condescension and self sacrifice for the redemption and salvation of all humanity. Humanity can also participate in God's saving work through theosis; becoming holy by grace.
 
Therefore, in Eastern Orthodoxy, theosis never concerns becoming like God in nature or essence, which is pantheism; instead, it concerns becoming united to God by grace, through his Energies. Since God in the Eastern traditions is somewhat panenthestic, Orthodox theology distinguishes between divine Essence and Energies. Kenosis therefore is a paradox and a mystery since "emptying oneself" in fact fills the person with divine grace and results in union with God. (OL's Note: KENOSIS IS PLEROSIS) Kenosis in Orthodox theology is the transcending or detaching of oneself from the world or the passions, it is a component of dispassionation. Much of the earliest debates between the Arian and Orthodox Christians were over kenosis. The need for clarification about the human and divine nature of the Christ (see the hypostatic union) where fought over the meaning and example that Christ set the example of kenosis or ekkenosis.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/8/2009 6:47:17 PM (GMT-5)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
One Love said...
Kenosis is plerosis.

:-)

 
 
Heko me please. What's that say in over-fifty Englis? Plerosis?
 
And why, please?


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce:
What's that say in over-fifty Englis? Plerosis?

And why, please?


I think it's a fairly biblical principle:

Humble yourself before God (emptying, death to self, kenosis) and allow God to exalt you (filling, alive to God, plerosis).


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok..

HERE is the filling in Ignatius...
"Give me only Thy love and Thy grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will have no more to desire."


(o)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
With what shall I come before the LORD
and bow down before the exalted God?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?

Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousand rivers of oil?
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

He has shown all you people what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/8/2009 6:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bruce:
HERE is the filling in Ignatius...
"Give me only Thy love and Thy grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will have no more to desire."


Yup.  Payton (Light from the Christian East) quoting Clement of Alexandria from "Christ the Educator 1.26"...page 147.

Clement...

When we are baptized, we are enlightened; enlightened, we become adopted children; adopted as children, we are made complete; and becoming complete, we are made divine. It is written, "I have said, 'You are gods and all of you the sons of the Most High' [Ps 82:6; Jn 10:34]. This ceremony is often called 'free gift', 'enlightenment', 'perfection', and 'cleansing' -- 'cleansing', because by it we are completely purified of our sins; 'free gift,' because through it the punishments due to our sins are remitted; 'enlightenment,' since by it we behold the wonderful, holy light of salvation (that is, it enables us to see God clearly*); finally, we call it 'perfection,' since we need nothing else--for what else could anyone need who possesses the knowledge of God?"
 

* "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."

Yessir.  Knowing the height, depth, and breadth of God's Love and God's Grace, what more could any person need?  biggrin


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/8/2009 6:59:48 PM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 12:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dangerously In Love with Jesus, our Lover...
 
I love you

Baby I love you
You are my life
My happiest moments weren't complete
If you weren't by my side
You're my relation
In connection to the sun
With you next to me
There's no darkness I can't overcome
You are my raindrop
I am the sea
With you and God, who's my sunlight
I bloom and grow so beautifully
Baby, I'm so proud
So proud to be your girl
You make the confusion
Go all away
From this cold and messed up world

I am in love with you
You set me free
I can't do this thing
Called life without you here with me
Cause I'm Dangerously In Love with you
I'll never leave
Just keep lovin' me
The way I love you loving me

And I know you love me
Love me for who I am
Cause years before I became who I am
Baby you were my man
I know it ain't easy
Easy loving me
I appreciate the love and dedication
From you to me
Later on in my destiny
I see myself having your child
I see myself being your wife
And I see my whole future in your eyes
Thought of all my love for you
sometimes make me wanna cry
Realize all my blessings
I'm grateful
To have you by my side

Every time I see your face
My heart smiles
Every time it feels so good
It hurts sometimes
Created in this world
To love and to hold
To feel
To breathe
To love you

Dangerously in love
Can't do this thing
I love you , I love you, I love you
I'll never leave
Just keep on loving me
I'm in love with you
I can not do
I cannot do anything without you in my life
Holding me, kissing me, loving me
Dangerously
I love you
Dangerously in love
--Beyonce Knowles

I love You...I love You...I love You...I love You...I love You...   redface


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/9/2009 12:24:05 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 12:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Repost from HERE...updated...

***************************************

D: All I want is to be as unified with God as he allows us to be. I want to be as one with Christ as I can being of His One Bride/Body.

Tom: So do I. We just dissagree on what the possible options are. You think fully interpersonal relations can be found along the whole continuum of determinism/indeterminism. I don't. I'm not open to any form of union with God that destroys the interpersonal nature of the relation because I think that's what God created us for. And I see your view as undermining the interpersonal nature of the relation. So I literally CAN'T want it, not until I can perceive it as interpersonal. But I can certainly agree that we ought to want to be AS UNIFIED WITH GOD AS POSSIBLE (while still remaining persons-in-relation).

Ok, then. So, in the end, one of two things is going on...

1) I'm (One Love) open to a reality that is not available, given God's telos, thus I will not experience it, either here or in the afterlife. After all, one can't experience what ain't there to experience. (I'm hoping that if this is the case, that God will clearly reveal such. See prayer below...)

2) You (Tom) are not open to a reality that is available, given God's telos, thus you will not experience it (at least not here in this life.) Your current lack of intelligibility of the concept (OL's Note: Ignatius' kenotic prayer!) will prevent you from experiencing it, until God reveals different to you later.  I suppose you can't live in something you can't make sense of.


So, my honest prayer...

Lord Jesus, if I'm open to something that is just NOT REAL, just show me clearly. I think I know what I'm experiencing...at the same time, I don't want to be self-deceived. Jesus, please let me know what the truth is on this matter. No one can make things clear like you can!

Thanks, Creator! ;-)

--------------------------------------

I believe that Jesus will continue to speak to us on this.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 1:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Water and alcohol: kenosis and plerosis

In “A History of Hooch,” Sam Anderson reviews Drink: A Cultural History of Alcohol by Iain Gately. He writes the following:

“Booze has presided over executions and business deals and marriages and births. It inspired the ancient Greeks to invent not only democracy but comedy and tragedy. It helped goad America’s Founding Fathers into revolution. . . .

One of Drink’s most fascinating subplots, as it turns out, is humanity’s apparently universal contempt for water. In ancient Greece, water drinkers ‘were believed not only to lack passion but also to exude a noxious odor’; in post-WWI France, they were thought to be fat, weak, and pimply—hurtful prejudices that I, having once been publicly berated by an Irishwoman for ordering a pint of water at a pub, can confirm still exist today. In fact, such enduring hydrophobia might make for a good popular history of its own, if only we could get someone to write it.”
In short, alcohol is the drink of glory and fullness, while water is the drink of humiliation and emptiness. In theological terms, alcohol represents plerosis, while water represents kenosis. To be a water drinker is to identify with Christ in his self-humiliation and death, while to be a beer and booze drinker is to identify with Christ in his resurrection and glorification. But in the same way that the Crucified One is also the Resurrected One, so too our lives cannot be dominated by one drink over the other; rather, we must live in the dialectical tension of both water and wine. Or, even more radically, we must realize that to take up our crosses is to live in the power of the resurrection, and similarly, to enjoy the riches of Christ’s resurrection is to be the servant of all. And so we must drink water in the way we drink single-malt scotch, and we must drink single-malt scotch in the way we drink water.

We must realize that taking up our crosses in the drinking of water is to live in resurrection glory, if only by way of remembrance and anticipation: we remember the way Christ turned water into wine and we look ahead to the eschatological feast of the lamb, at which we will drink freely—always satisfied, but never glutted. The miracle at Cana itself was a proleptic realization of God’s consummation of creation, in which creaturely reality will be glorified in correspondence to the resurrection glory of Easter. Similarly, the wedding feast is the manifestation and remembrance of Christ’s blessing of wine at the Last Supper, in which the fullness of alcoholic glory took on the emptiness of aquatic humility. In the same way that the Son of God took on “the likeness of sinful flesh,” so too the liquid ambrosia took on the likeness of humble hydration.

For now, we live between cross and resurrection, between Cana and New Jerusalem. We walk in the way of water, but in the enrapturing power of hooch. We must identify ourselves with those who are unable to drink from the vine and are confined to the tap. We must live in solidarity with the many who will never enjoy the alcoholic parables of the kingdom. Those who have “tasted and seen that the Lord is good” are sent as ambassadors of Christ, as witnesses to the glory of beer and wine. We are ministers of holy inebriation. As we drink from the cup of the new covenant, we go forward as bibulous missionaries, stumbling forward in pentecostal intoxication, following Christ’s command to give drink to those who are thirsty.

Jesus said, “I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” In the meantime, we pray, “thy kingdom come.” Come, Lord Jesus.

------------------------------

Thought:

Only God can turn "water" into "wine", bringing fullness from emptiness!

 

Hook up the God-intoxication, Jesus!  cheers

These people are not drunk, as you suppose...No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

    " 'In the last days, God says,
       I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
       Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
       your young men will see visions,
       your old men will dream dreams.

    Even on my servants, both men and women,
       I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
       and they will prophesy.

    I will show wonders in the heaven above
       and signs on the earth below,
       blood and fire and billows of smoke.

    The sun will be turned to darkness
       and the moon to blood
       before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

    And everyone who calls
       on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/9/2009 11:18:59 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 1:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Random. I'm still awake...

"...absolutely focused on killing the Demon within..."  (I love Batman...)

When battling the Evil One within, the Light of God always works.

------------------------------------------------------

Contrition before God and the need for not depending upon our piety and our strength:


Father Moses (St. Moses the Black) increased in piety and in the struggle with himself to a great extent; but in spite of these desperate measures, the vigilance and the defeat of the self, he could not avoid imagining the lustful ghosts that were intensified as his struggle increased. His additional abstentions were probably without the permission of his spiritual mentor, for when he went to him to complain about his situation, he said to him, "My son, stop fighting the devils for the human being's strength has its limits. (One Love's Thought: Only God is infinitely strong.)  However, if God does not have mercy upon you and He alone gives victory over them, you will never overpower them. Go now and submit yourself to God with repentance before Him. Persevere in humility, He will have mercy upon you." Moses answered,
 
"I trust in God in whom I have placed all my hope that I be constantly armed against the devils*, and never stop fighting them until they depart from me."
 
When St. Isidorus saw this faith in him, he said, "And I also believe in my Lord Jesus Christ, and in the name of Jesus Christ, from this moment the devils will stop fighting you." He added, "Go to the Holy church and partake of the Holy Sacraments." St. Moses continued to do as the Elder had said with perseverance, and God gave him a great blessing, humility and serenity. (One Love's Thought: The "Peace" that passes all understanding.) The power of thought came upon him, and from that moment Moses lived in peace and grew in wisdom.
 
 
 
*Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.  Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.  For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.  Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.  Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,  and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.  In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.  Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/9/2009 2:08:57 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:24 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom, check your email. ;-)


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mornin', Brother Turtle.

;-)


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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Tom
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
D, got 'em.

T
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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sweet. Take your time. :-)


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, yeah...
 
Morning music.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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Tom
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   Posted 4/9/2009 7:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Gotta run.

I'll get back to ya D.

T
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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 8:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom:
Dude, why aren’t you EO? I mean, how do you celebrate the Lord’s table on what you feel is this unique level at WHC? No priest. No shared community to embrace the table in like manner, etc. Why haven’t you moved on to convert? I don’t get it. Because God has you at WHC? Why would God require you to sever yourself from the true Church, the true table, the true and very life of Christ? To be a kind of missionary for the EO among Evangelicals? What?

God knows, dawg. Only God knows.


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 10:09 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Starets
 
Foolishness for Christ

Poustinia


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

Post Edited (One Love) : 4/9/2009 10:32:56 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 11:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If the only prayer you ever say in your entire life is thank you, it will be enough.
--
Meister Eckhart
 
You've been good, Lord...thanks. :-)


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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One Love
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   Posted 4/9/2009 3:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Jesus, Take The Wheel"
Carrie Underwood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky4rfA_tebY

A song of  "repentance" and humility...

Sing it...now. See how you feel.
 
Now imagine living that at every present moment...
 
yeah...

"I'm letting go..."

redface 


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am.  God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian."  -James Fowler

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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
 
   Posted 4/9/2009 3:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If theosis includes coming to like country music you can forget it. Everybody has their limits.

Tom
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