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Asher
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 477
| Posted 12/25/2009 9:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | Merry Christmas everyone! Just on for a couple minutes, but wanted to post this message I had sent to D, this is a copy:
"And about my post decrying what I see as faults in mystic thought and language...understand, when you interpret the mystics sayings, I do not disagree with your interpretations...my complaint is with the original sayings as THE form of their sayings...if they said to begin with what you say as interpretation for them I would not have much complaint. And part of my complaint is that even though when challenged and then interpreted the mystics are then more acceptable to me...it's that I have a suspicion that in formulating their sayings the way they originally do they are "getting mileage"...in other words, they point a certain distance down a certain path...and that when interpreted they may still be pointing a certain distance down that same path...but the distance is not the same as in their original sayings...they are "getting mileage" that isn't warranted.
But, that said, the specific thing I complained about..."emptying the mind" etc. see if this thought I had comes anywhere close to what you want to say with regards to emptying:
First, I like the formulation that you have mentioned a few times about God being the walls, ceiling and floor of our consciousness. That is fitting to me and not only do I not have a problem with it, I think it is fantastic...and beautiful. So, with that as the backdrop, I was thinking about all this and the idea of a snowglobe came to me. A snowglode that has lots of flecks of "snow" that we can shake and see bustling about in swirls and eddies. And that is very similar to the day to day moment by moment consciousness of most people. Their consciousness is shaken and there is a blur of snow every way you look. If by "emptying" your mind, what you mean is allowing all the snow (which is not necessarily bad in itself...in fact it can also be quite beautiful) to settle to the bottom of the snowglobe and allow the interior to clear...that you now have a certain kind of vision that you would not have if you keep shaking the globe and setting the snow flecks moving in the fluid streams. So, both visions have value...but to even see the clear vision you must allow the snow to settle. So you are not evacuating the globe of the snow as in an actual emptying...but you are emptying the FIELD OF VISION of the flecks of snow so that you can see what is there when the snow settles. And if God IS the walls, ceiling, floor, and even the background fluid of our consciousness then what you see when the snow settles IS God"
And I was thinking since I wrote him that...that once you experience the empty field of vision and God in that...that that experience then fills, as in negative space, your further experiences when the snow is swirling...you are "filled" with "emptiness"...and that informs day to day experiences of the snow flecks...so, the snow is of value and the clear vision when the snow is settled is of value...and we move from glory to glory like D's Image for "Epektasis" | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/26/2009 1:23 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/26/2009 1:24 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/26/2009 1:38 AM (GMT -6) | | | But the Church is not only hierarchical, it is charismatic and Pentecostal. “Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings” (1 Thes. 5:19-20). The Holy Spirit is poured out upon all God’s people. There is a special ordained ministry of bishops, priests, and deacons; yet at the same time the whole people of God are prophets and priests. In the Apostolic Church, besides the institutional ministry conferred by the laying on of hands, there were other charismata or gifts conferred directly by the Spirit: Paul mentions ‘gifts of healing,’ the working of miracles, “speaking with tongues,” and the like (1 Cor. 12:28-30). In the Church of later days, these charismatic ministries have been less in evidence, but they have never been wholly extinguished. One thinks, for example, of the ministry of ‘eldership,’ so prominent in nineteenth-century Russia; this is not imparted by a special act of ordination, but can be exercised by the layman as well as by priest or bishop. Seraphim of Sarov and the startsi [“elders”] of Optino exercised an influence far greater than any hierarch.
Kallistos Ware
"The Orthodox Church"
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