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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Gibson's Passion Compared with Scripture... | Forum Quick Jump
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/18/2004 11:47 AM (GMT -6) |   | Borg: If you feel my words are unfair, I believe that is more of a reflection on you than me. You have been totally judgmental towards Gibson, and totally rude about any benefit people might find in seeing it. As such I find you completely close-minded on the subject; your posts on it have simply been rude and more mean-spirited towards both Gibson and people who see it. You stated, for instance, that you don't like Billy Graham. You associate viewing it with idolatry. The list goes on. Perhaps if you actually listened to what others are saying about how they were touched by the movie. Perhaps if you actually saw the movie...you rather have already made up your mind. As such your views (on this subject) are usually without merit. I would suggest to those who are interested, to check out your comments on the movie on another post to see what I am talking about. (I can't remember which one it is, but it has Passion in the title).
As far as love, yes, sometimes I do go overboard. I try my best not to. But love isn't about niceness; much of it is about truth and how we express it.
I would like to ask you this: since you have stated twice that Mel Gibson doesn't believe in justification by faith, and since you act as if you know this as a fact, I would appreciate you giving the publication you read that in (unless of course he told it to you personally). Since you are stating this as fact, please confirm to me where you read this.
Anyone who deals with Catholics knows that it is a big organization with many different levels. Plus, how do you know Gibson (and I am not saying he is, but he might), isn't in the process of reevaluating what he believes?
But of course since you know so well what he believes, perhaps you would enlighten the rest of us as to where you got the information.
BTW, the word alone? If it were the word alone, why all these preachers? Why teachers...the word alone is a term to used to justify a person's interpretation of the scripture as scripture. | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/18/2004 11:54 AM (GMT -6) | | | Ochuk: You de man! I have never heard a Bible described that way! I am going to have to write that down...I am with you on this though. Some people bow down before the Bible rather than the person who inspired it...big-assed ESV...you be touchin' the reformed translation...a world of hurtin' be coming' | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/18/2004 12:11 PM (GMT -6) | | | Its "The Passion of The Christ Movie" in board comments... | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 3/19/2004 3:25 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Ochuk
Thanks guys. Just to clarify one thing, I am a monergist who believes in the authority of the Bible very much (and I like the ESV), but many of my Reformed brothers make the Bible out to be God himself.
Is the Bible the new golden calf for some brothers? Idolatry of the bible, poor God, to think someone could fall deeper in love with the love letter then the lover Himself. | | Back to Top | | |
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victoryword
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 3/19/2004 5:31 AM (GMT -6) | | Some of what I am reading here is coming dangerously close to a lack of reverence for God's Word.
Lest ye forget, Jesus Himself is referred to as The Word of God (John 1:1, 14)
Furthermore, God has declared that His Word has power (Heb. 4:12) and that it works effectively in those who believe (1 Thess. 2:13). God says that when He sends out His Word that it will accomplish the thing He sent it out to do (Isa. 55:11) and that He will perform His Word (Jer. 1:12). God has magnified His Word even above His own name (Ps. 138:2)
Now, if people are spending time reading the Bible but never fellowshipping with the author of the Bible, and they are not allowing the Bible to change their lives, then, yes, the person has a problem. Nevertheless, the Bible is the Word of God and it should be taken seriously. If a person spends time with God (supposedly) but spends little to no time in His Word, they can come up with all kinds of goofy revelations under the guise, "The Lord spoke this to me in prayer."
Be careful of going to two extremes.
Finally, God expects His WORD to be preached because it is this Word that will impart faith to the sinner to be converted (see Romans 10:8-17). I am a personal believer that persistent evangelism using God's Word (through preaching and film) will win the lost. God backs His Word as we proclaim it (Mark 16:15-20).
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/19/2004 5:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Victoryword: I think what is being expressed here is a take on how people view the Bible, not the Bible itself. I think you need to reread the posts...and read how the people posting have talked about scripture and quoted scripture. I believe that will help clarify things for you.
Jesus is The Word of God. Jesus is not the Bible. The Bible is God's word. God is not the Bible...The Bible calls us to the worship of God, not the worship of words...
What is in question here is not taking the Bible seriously, its not taking the Bible seriously enough. To take the Bible in the correct way is to look to the person it is pointing to, not to mistake the written for God.
BTW, in Psalm 138:2 the two are together. God exalts BOTH his name and his word. Regardless, I think it may be a stretch to believe that God is talking about the written word in this verse. Certainly the Israelities would not have heard it that way. God spoke to their prophets. That is most likely what the Psalmist was refering to. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 3/19/2004 7:04 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/19/2004 7:46 AM (GMT -6) | | Frankly, I do not believe the term is "profanity," ;, however, because it is offensive to you, I will refrain from using it. And I apologize if you find it offensive. However, for the record, I believe it was funny and I believe God would see the humor in it. But I do believe it would get people off the real track of the issue; people who make the Bible an idol.
Besides, I see the term as describing the use of an english translation that is so big and imposing it scares people in how it is used and abused. If the term draws people to attend to such misuse then it was worth the using. When people use it that way, it isn't the Bible anymore; it is a blasmpheous weapon. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 3/19/2004 8:06 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole
Frankly, I do not believe the term is "profanity," ;, however, because it is offensive to you, I will refrain from using it. And I apologize if you find it offensive. However, for the record, I believe it was funny and I believe God would see the humor in it. But I do believe it would get people off the real track of the issue; people who make the Bible an idol.
Besides, I see the term as describing the use of an english translation that is so big and imposing it scares people in how it is used and abused. If the term draws people to attend to such misuse then it was worth the using. When people use it that way, it isn't the Bible anymore; it is a blasmpheous weapon.
(Jo-Anne) Amazing isn't it? I was thinking just the same thing before I read your final few words. The word of God is a lamp to light the way. It is living and breathing and active, sharper than a "two-edged sword" In a sense it is a powerful weapon against the enemy but was never intended to be used against each other. It always amazes me when believers do that. The enemy takes things that are good and wonderful, distorts them and uses them for his purposes - even the word of God. He knows it as well as we do.
I know that nothing offensive was intended by that term. A point was being made and it was funny the way that it was expressed. But, I agree with you, that it is better to avoid offending each other wherever possible. Otherwise, he (satan) wins (at least a small skirmish).
I for one want to handle the Word of God rightly. I think you're right though Feelinahole - God understood the intent.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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borg
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 324
| Posted 3/19/2004 8:38 AM (GMT -6) | | "I am denying the inherent bibliolatry that believes that the Bible's words are incantations to the elect that comes along with the twisted idea called "scripture only" which is not the same thing as Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone as the highest authority"
wondering what you are meaning by this. it intrigues me. You also said that many of your refomred friends have a view of the Bible as God Himself. I'm not saying it is, but it is the greatest manifestation that we have God. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. I think the Bible still deserves more credit than jsut merely saying that it is a book. Yes it's not effectual until the Holy Spirit works through it, but it still deserves more than being labeled a book.
feelinahole, what are you talking about? I enjoy how you make your morals and truth subjective. You are a true product of post-moderninism always desiring to shove the responsibility off of yourself and unto others. Everything you said "against" me about being closed minded, and all, i could throw right back at you.
I'm not judging Mel Gibson. who am I to judge? I'm nothing but a sinner saved by grace. Mel is no worse than me, people who love the Passion are no worse than me. It's not a judgment on character, its more of forcing people to become aware. And you yourself have become aware, however you surpress the fact that you have to judge and hate the fact that perhaps against your postmodern mind you might have to become aware of your self. Anyone that poses a different opinion than your own is condemned as a heretic and a closed minded person. Hmm... interesting, but not very substantial or considerate. Mel is allowed to disagree with me, people are allowed to disagree with me, and i'm allowed to disagree with you. Mel doesn't believe in Justification by faith alone because he is a CATHOLIC. having surrendored himself to Catholic doctrine, and Pre-vatican II especially, he labels himself within the doctrine of not believing this. If he didn't believe it, he wouldn't be catholic! But i have wasted enough time talking to the likes of you, and I find that further dialogue with you will be nothing more than a waste of time. I wonder how long ago the Spirit left this conversation, and therefore, must resign myself to longer talking to you; in fear that i sin by stirring up malicious anger against such imprudence and ignorance. Say what you like to me, harass me, be the meanest person you can (if you aren't already); I don't care.
But above all, don't worry my friend; we are still in good graces.
Blessings,
Borg
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 3/19/2004 8:59 AM (GMT -6) | | After all that, we are still in good graces! WOW! Thanks Borg. I wonder what "bad" graces" is to you.
But, to further clarify something, since you know me well enough to call me postmodern, I would have hoped that you would know me we enough to know how I use words, particularly a word such as heretic, which I never use. Close-minded is not the same thing as heretic, nor would I use it that way. While I disagree with your beliefs (as you seem to be a Calvinist), I would not call you a heretic in any way, nor would I usually call anyone a heretic that I did not know well enough to do so (and certainly not a website). As such, please do not put words in my mouth.
Disagreements and rudeness aside, the use of the word heretic is sad, particularly when its use is abused.
BTW, John 1 :1 was talking Jesus Christ, not the written word. The written word was not "in the beginning." Or do you believe there was always a book somewhere for a non-physical God to read? | | Back to Top | | |
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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 3/19/2004 9:02 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole
Victoryword: I think what is being expressed here is a take on how people view the Bible, not the Bible itself. I think you need to reread the posts...and read how the people posting have talked about scripture and quoted scripture. I believe that will help clarify things for you.
Jesus is The Word of God. Jesus is not the Bible. The Bible is God's word. God is not the Bible...The Bible calls us to the worship of God, not the worship of words...
What is in question here is not taking the Bible seriously, its not taking the Bible seriously enough. To take the Bible in the correct way is to look to the person it is pointing to, not to mistake the written for God.
BTW, in Psalm 138:2 the two are together. God exalts BOTH his name and his word. Regardless, I think it may be a stretch to believe that God is talking about the written word in this verse. Certainly the Israelities would not have heard it that way. God spoke to their prophets. That is most likely what the Psalmist was refering to.
I read the posts and that is why I replied as I did and I stand by my post. People so called "take" on how others view the Bible is coming dangerously close to showing a lack of reverence for God's Word, especially when a curse word is used as an adjective in reference to the Bible. I have a very big sense of humor, but some of you push the limits of freedom in Christ.
Furthermore, God's Word is His Word, whether WRITTEN or SPOKEN. The verse says that He exalts His WORD. It does not make a distinction as to whether it is the written Word or something He may have spoken directly. To make such a distinction makes it clear to me that a slope here is becoming slippery and the slide is inevitable by the excuses I am reading in your post to justify the near irreverence of God's Holy and written Word.
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com | | Back to Top | | |
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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 3/19/2004 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Ochuk
Ugh...
There is no attack here on the Bible or it's importance.
There is an attack on deifying the Bible, as if it shares in the divine nature itself, or as if it were a 4th person of a "quadrinity"
that the holy Spirit is bound to.
The bible, as Luther said, is the craddle of Christ (who is the Word of God), and should be held in high esteem. However describing a large leather-bound book as "big-ass" is not an attack on the inspired cannon. Its a description of the package it comes in. That was what I was trying to say.
I have many big leather bibles :)
The use of such an irreverent word in description to a Bible should not be seen coming from a Christian's mouth or keyboard or even on a Christian webpage. I am not a moderator on this forum so I cannot make that call. However, as a brother in Christ, I can call such things to the attention of my brothers.
If one will remember that people in places such as China, North Korea, and other Communist and Muslim countries would be willing to give their lives for a Bible, and how they hold them dear and precious when they finally get one, and will share one page of it with their fellow believers, we might come to appreciate a little more the advantages we have in the West to just go to any bookstore and buy one - in a multitude of ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS.
Furthermore, if we remember how men such as William Tyndale and others gave their very lives to have this Bible translated in the language of the common people, we might not be so quick to use irreverent terms when describing it.
I agree that if the Bible is not leading the reader to the PERSON who inspired the Bible, then there is a problem and the person needs to check their motives. Nonetheless, to exalt the Word of God is NOT Bibliolatry. This term could probably identify those who use it as one's who very seldom ever spend any time meditating on this precious Book which reveals who our God is.
The Muslims seem to put some of you to shame with their respect for the Koran.
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com | | Back to Top | | |
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