 |
| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > The Rapture was revealed before given to Paul. | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
larris
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 6/8/2004 8:40 AM (GMT -6) |   | I was originally taught that Paul received a special revelation about the mstery of the "rapture". However over the years I came to discover that this infact was not true, and that Jesus taught all about the so called secret rapture in his earthly ministry. The only reason that I did not see it, was because I had also been taught that the gospels were not really addressed to me in this time, and therefore of coures I never really studied the gospels.
Therefore I was not only shocked but extremely distressed to first find out that everything Paul taught was not only in the gospels, but that it could also be found in the Old Testament Scritures. Believing for years that nothing but Paul's epistles were basically written to me in this day and time, had cut out over 90 percent of the scriptures, that would have added greatly to my understanding, and also brought me great personal deliverance, in teahcing me how to follow the Lord Jesus Christ correctly.
What I wish to share with you here is how the rapture that Paul taught was also taught by Jesus during his earthly ministry, and written in what we now call the gospels.
Background:
Paul warned the Gallatians:
Gal. 1:8 But though we or an angel from heaven preach another other gospel to you than that you have (already) received, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any preach any other gospel to you than that you have (past tense, already) received, then let him be accursed.
This was not the gospel he was writing, this was reproof for the fact that they were already so soon removed from the original gospel he taught.
Gal. 4:13Ye know how through the infimity of the flesh I preached (past tense) the gospel to you AT THE FIRST.
The whole letter was written because of Pharicitical Jews sneaking into the assembly and telling the Galations, that not only did they have to believe the gospel that was already preached to them, but that ALSO had to be circumcised.
Gal. 5:2 Behold I Paul say unto you that if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
This is just one example of “another gospel” that was preached by false brethren. Any time you ADD something or TAKE AWAY something you wind up with “another gospel”. This problem plagued Paul during his entire ministry, even after the event in Jerusalem when the apostles and elders flatly stated that the Gentiles did not have to be circumcised.
Acts.15:1 And certain me which came down from Judaea taught the brethren and said Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses you cannot be saved. (5) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees, which believed, saying that it was needful to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses. (23. the letters from the apostles and elders then state. (24) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with works subverting your souls, saying, you must be circumcised and keep the law: to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT. (This however did not stop this sort of thing, Paul was plagued with it continually, Titus 1:10) For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses (churches, since the church was in the house.) teaching things which they ought not for filthy lucre’s sake.
Look at it this way, to be a “Pharisee” was not just a belief, it was a JOB. What happens to that “JOB”, when your belief becomes fairly obsolete? What happens to you title, your Ph. D, Th. D? Paul said there were many unruly and vain talkers “specially” they of the circumcision, but not JUST of the circumcision. On the other side you had the Greeks who had been schooled in Greek philosophy and were “teachers” of Greek theology, which was also a PROFESSION, and while on one hand you had those of the PROFESSION of the circumcision coming in to some Churches like Gallatia, you had others who were mixing Greek fancy methods of interpretation and literary criticism showing the believers HOW they should read and interpret the scriptures.
Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of me, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. (18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angles, intruding into these things which he hath NOT SEEN, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.
While the Pharisee boys that had believed were teaching circumcision, the Greek Philosophy boys that believed, were both applying philosophical methods of interpretation (poetics as it was called) and teaching what they thought they were SEEING in the Scriptures, like Hymeneaus and Philetus who came up with the bright idea that the resurrection was PAST already and over threw the faith of some, who’s methods would increase and eventually eat away at the whole body of Christ like gangrene.
Let me ask you a question. IF you teach that the resurrection is PAST already, then dose any scripture that deals with the resurrection apply to you? NO of course not, it’s already over, so then right there you CUT OUT everything Christ taught now written in the Gospels. That is just one way of cutting out the teachings of Christ, so that believers will not read them, and disciple themselves to his sayings. Dispensationalism is just another false method of cutting out the WISDOM that Christ spoke, and turning the original gospel into “another gospel”, which is not another but a perverted form of the original.
.John 8:31 If you continue in my Word you will be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
It was his words, his teachings, his commandments, his sayings, that would lead a person to eventually become a disciple IF they continued in them. Once a disciple they would then come to a knowledge of the truth. This truth concerned all things written in what we call the Old Testament, concerning him. This included not only his birth, ministry, resurrection but also all the things that would take place between the sufferings of Christ and the glory that would follow. Hence mysterious sayings by the prophets, that had been hidden from the understanding of man, and yet written by holy men of God as God laid it out to them. There was no NEW revelation given in the N.T. there was only OLD revelation REVEALED to them. That is the eyes of their understanding were enlightened as they followed Christ, and they came to understand the true meaning of the prophecies in the Old Testament. That is why they taught the gospel out of what we call “The Old Testament”, which they called “THE SCRIPTURES” .
To Timothy,
But continue in the things which thou hast both learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou has learned them; And that from a child (before Paul even knew him.) thou hast know the HOLY SCRIPTURES which are able to make thee wise unto salvation though faith which is in Christ Jesus. ALL SCRIPTURE (all that HOLY SCRIPTURE, which we call the Old Testament) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works. (2Tim. 3:14-17)
When a person has the true faith of Christ, by undersanding HIS teachings now written in the Gospels, and DOING as he said to do, that knowledge then makes him WISE so as to then be able to understand all the “mysterious” sayings in the Prophets and the Psalms concerning him. It also gives him the ability to “rightly divide” those sections of what was written in the Law of Moses, that Christ included in HIS gospel (called also the Law of Christ.) , as well as those sections that do not apply to him such as “circumcision”.
Jesus opened the scriptures to his disciples, some before his death and many after his resurrection.
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, (they not knowing who he was.) O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ( I wonder if he offended them?) Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded all things concerning himself. (30) And it came to pass as he sat at meat with them, he took the bread and blessed it, and brake and gave to them. And there eyes were opened and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn with in us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he OPENED UP THE SCRIPTURES TO US.
WOW, how would you like to have that teaching on tape? But we don’t have that teaching, because that teaching is reserved for those who become his disciples, by reading the gospels and then bringing themselves under his authority, by continuing in his word, to become his disciple and THEN just as he did to them, he can open your understanding to what is written in what we call “The Old Testament”, and which they called THE SCRIPTURES.
Paul received the same exact gospel these men did and in the SAME WAY they did, by the personal presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, who told him verbatim the same exact things he told them, both here and then during the 40 days before his ascension. And as they continued in his word, confirming themselves as his disciples, more of the scripture was opened to them all through the period of the book of Acts. No, wait, John received his revelation AFTER the book of Acts was already over and done. So the last one to receive any revelation was John, thus ending the writings of what would be enough to guide those who would later commit themselves to be disciples of Jesus Christ, to a knowledge of the truth.
If Jesus wanted to he could show up on your door step and open up the scriptures to you the same way he did to them. The only problem is that is not how it is passed on. It was first passed on to the Apostles, then they passed it on to those they taught in person. They then did not write everything they taught to these people, since it was contained in the SCRIPTURES and these people had reaceived the understanding from them. Like Paul did not first write EVERYTHING he taught previously in person, and THEN go into writing the point of what he wanted to get to in his letters to the Churches.
The truth of the gospel was first in Jesus, then taught by him to his apostles, then passed on verbatim by his apostles to others, who were supposed to be faithful men who were also able to teach others. Unfortunately they wound up being not so faithful. However Paul and the other apostles left us enough WRITTEN records that by READING we can eventually come to an understanding of the truth. And it is by what men teach on just HOW you should read this Bible we have, that will either help us on that journey or hinder us permenently. To teach that anything you read excpet certain of Paul's epistles is one of the means that keep you from coming to the original and same understanding Paul actually had.
Jesus would have to be a saddest to teach a whole gospel, teach one message, and then after pretty much everyone has heard it, all of a sudden give a new one to Paul, right out of the blue. Can you imagine how much confusion in an already confusing world that would cause? Like “OK you Ephesians, I know what I taught you before I got sent to Jail but that’s all null and void now, here’s my NEW Gospel. Everything that Jesus taught here on earth to the other apostles no longer applies to you, and the scriptures I’ve been reasoning with you out of and teaching you for the past 30 years also no longer applies to you. Now ONLY a few letters I’m going to write to you and someone else apply to you.”
Paul NEVER taught a secret gospel, he taught the same gospel of Jesus Christ that all the other apostles taught. And like them he gave the understanding of many of the things that Jesus said, that were so obscure when he actually said them. For example the so called “mystery“ of the RAPTURE. Jesus taught THE RAPTURE, he just didn’t teach a pre-trib rapture and neither did Paul.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable and we shall be changed.
Context clearly shows that Paul here was speaking about the time of the RESURRECTION.
1 Cor. 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is NO RESURRECTION of the dead?
He then gives the whole run down of the Resurrection to them, and then he gives them as aspect of that same resurrection that he had not taught them YET. It was something he had already known, something all the other apostles knew, but something not YET taught to the Corinthains, because as he said, when he was with them, teaching them, they were so carnal, that he refused to know anything among them save Jesus Christ and him crucified. He just could not get into as much detail as he would have liked because they were not grown up enough in Christ to understand nor accept it.
The “mystery” that not all believers would be DEAD, when the TIME came for the Resurrection to begin was something that Jesus taught. Something we have heard a million times and it never dawned on us what he was saying.
John 11: 21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hast been here , my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
Jesus said unto her, Thy bother shall rise again.
Martha said to him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
They say this at just about every single funeral that’s held, even the fake funerals in movies and on TV.
I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
Now we know that there are LOTS of people that have believed on Jesus and have DIED. So what was he talking about? He was talking about the TIME of the Resurrection WHEN it dose take place.
I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, WHEN THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION COMES yet shall he live: And whosoever lives AT THE TIME WHEN THE RESURRECTION COMES and believes in me shall never die.
This is exactly what Paul was trying to get across to the Corinthians. There is only ONE WAY that anyone who is alive and believes on Jesus will never actually taste of death. and that is IF they are alive when the TIME comes for Jesus to return and call forth the dead in Christ from their graves. That means that they are going to have to be “changed” since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, the flesh and blood of you has to be changed to a body like as his glorious body, for you to be able to hack being in the presence of God.
I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, WHEN THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION COMES yet shall he live: And whosoever lives AT THE TIME WHEN THE RESURRECTION COMES and believes in me shall never die.
Or to put it another way.
I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, WHEN I COME TO CALL THE DEAD FORTH OUT OF THEIR GRAVES, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me WHEN I COME TO CALL FORTH THE DEAD OUT OF THEIR GRAVES, shall never die.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold I show you a mystery; (AT THE TIME WHEN I COME AT THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION) We (who believe in Jesus) shall not all sleep (be dead) , but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable and we (who believe in Jesus and are in Christ at that TIME, if we are alive.) shall be changed.
Consiquently this obviously dose not apply to Paul, since Paul and everyone he was speaking to here is DEAD. But when that same resurrection of which they will now be a part of occurs, those alive in Christ at the TIME will be caught up and changed. Jesus taught these very things, in his earthly ministry, but at the time he taught them hardly anyone understood what he was talking about. Here again is another place he taught this same thing.
Matthew 24: 31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, NOW learn the parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender and puts forth leaves you know that summer is nigh. so likewise you, when you shall SEE ALL THESE THINGS COME TO PASS, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say to you, this generation (the generation alive at the TIME these things take place, the generation alive at the TIME of the Resurrection.) shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall not pass away but my words shall not pass away.
At the time Jesus spoke these things, they were all like HUH? Because no one except him truly understood them yet. But by the time he opened up their understanding to these things they were more like “DAH”! And these things all including the “mystery” of the Gentiles and the one body can all be found IN THE SCRIPTURES, that we call the Old Testament, because this is what those who taught these things taught them out of.
ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is PROFITABLE, for DOCTRINE for reproof, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
What we call "the rapture" was not some new special thing outside of the resurreciton of the just, also called the first resurrection, it was an ASPECT of that same resurrection, previously not understood. This is the SAME resurrection promised to those of Israel, of whom Daniel was one. Believing faithful Jews of all time, along with believing faithful gentiles, members of the same body, and the same promises in Christ by the gospel.
In the love of Christ, Pre Acts, Mid Acts, Post Acts, taught in ALL SCRIPTURE,
larris
"If you continue (abide and live) in my word, then you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Jesus Christ. (John 8:31) | | Back to Top | | |
 |
PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/8/2004 8:59 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 11:02 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|