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PhilTheThrill
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 95
| Posted 4/29/2004 5:32 AM (GMT -6) |   | Well I ran your list through my Doctrine Calculator and it turns out that the best church for you is Meadowview Bible Church in Sacramento, CA. 
Just kidding! I say go to a church that has worship and a pastor that you like. If you want to grow deeper in your particular doctrines, try getting together a small group to discuss and study them or perhaps even debate. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 4/29/2004 10:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Son of a Krypton! 
Hey, you could start your own church if push comes to shove! But I think nondenominational charistmatic (like John said) might be as close as you're gonna get. Or you might wanna try an Assembly of God church. You're not far from the kingdom my son  . It's just that they're pre-millennial, which is important for their ministers but much less so among laity. No worry there.
Tom
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 5/7/2004 12:39 AM (GMT -6) | | OK, that last note was spoken tounge in cheek. The point is, you will never, ever, ever, ever find a denomination or church or group of fellow believers that agrees with you on every single point of doctrine.
Out of that list, pick, say, 5 or 6 doctrines that you think are absolutely fundamental to your faith. What are they? Let those be your guide.
Doctrine shouldn't be criteria for segregation. They are statements of what we believe. But certainly some things we believe are, can I say, a little less important than other things, so don’t elevate those to grounds for division.
If I may make some suggestions, my opinion is the Genesis debate, the Human Constitution debate, the Lord's Supper debate, the Baptism debate, and the Millennium debate are among those that are peripheral, i.e., not worth splitting over.
Payaso 
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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Tiggers
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 219
| Posted 5/7/2004 10:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Payaso Asserts,
“OK, that last note was spoken tounge in cheek. The point is, you will never, ever, ever, ever find a denomination or church or group of fellow believers that agrees with you on every single point of doctrine.”
Tiggers’ Reply,
True That! My friend.
Payaso Asserts,
“If I may make some suggestions, my opinion is the Genesis debate, the Human Constitution debate, the Lord's Supper debate, the Baptism debate, and the Millennium debate are among those that are peripheral, i.e., not worth splitting over.”
Tiggers’ Reply,
Heck I was baptized Greek Orthodox in Chicago, grew up in a Baptist tradition, and now work with the Methodist folks…sheesh, where do I fit in denominationally…well, I don’t really care as long as they exemplify a true love for Christ and for me hold to Jesus Christ, as truly Divine (i.e. God in the flesh, as well as resurrected). I basically find churches that hold to the Apostles Creed and find the rest rather irrelevant to my search.
Now, don’t get me wrong there are still problems (e.g., I’ll never forget one afternoon while working at a church in Boston a fellow member of the church called me a “liberal puke” because I held an egalitarian position; however, on the flip side, a liberal (i.e., theological pluralist in this case) found that it would be best not to work with me due to my Arminian Universal Evangelism position when it came to the destiny of the unevangelized). Oh well, you’ll never get everything you want from one denomination, sooooo, I agree with Payaso!
Jack Farmer Asserts,
“Tiggers, I tried the denomination selector you suggested. It was kind of vague in the questions it asked. I did it, and the top two picks were A.O.G. and Methodists. Still, neither one holds to all of the beliefs that I do. I couldn't go to a AOG church because of their views regarding eschatology and tounges as THE evidence for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I'm Amillenial and, although i'm not a cessasionist, I'm not a Pentacostal, a Charismatic, or a "Third Wave" person, either.”
Tiggers’ Reply,
I didn’t suggest it, I merely used it and found it to be a bit silly due to vagueness you wrote about above. Nevertheless, there might be a little wisdom that gleams in through its very vagueness…to understand this read what Payaso asserts again…really, just imagine a survey where every single persons doctrines would have to fit in a particular denomination…well, Jack…it just doesn’t work! Furthermore, I’m afraid there would be a lot of unchurched people out there…and just to further my thought a bit more, well, a question rises in my head, and this is…what would this kind strict doctrinal legalism tell the outside world about the Universal Christian Community?
For what it’s worth!
Warmly in Christ,
Tiggers 
“The notion that God uses evils as a means to such higher goods is, … incompatible with the doctrine that he is omnipotent, and therefore does not need to use deplorable means to achieve his ends” (J.L. Mackie). | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 5/7/2004 10:21 PM (GMT -6) | | Jack: …the top two picks were A.O.G. and Methodists. Still, neither one holds to all of the beliefs that I do. I couldn't go to a AOG church because of their views regarding eschatology and tounges as THE evidence for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I'm Amillenial and, although i'm not a cessasionist, I'm not a Pentacostal, a Charismatic, or a "Third Wave" person, either.
Tom: Don’t expect to find a church that believe all your believe, as you believe it, and nothing more. Get as close as you can. It will work. So does marriage, even though husband and wife don’t believe exactly the same things down to the last detail. And you’re not gonna be a close to your denomination as you are your wife.
You can do just fine in the A/G without believing in initial evidence and premillennialism. Lost of A/G people do. I’m not talking down on the A/G. I’m A/G. But I’m not A/G because “I qualify for them” by believing their fundamental truths. I’m A/G because “they qualify for me” by representing across the board the closest thing to what I do believe. Nobody goes around talking about the millennium as a core value to living for Jesus. I’ve been in the A/G since 1973 and have never heard a sermon on it. Hmm? So, don’t worry about lining up 100% on this stuff.
You might enjoy Vineyard churches. They don’t believe in initial evidence or hold a particular position on the millennium and they’re not cessastionists.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 5/7/2004 10:41 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
Son of a Krypton!
Hey, you could start your own church if push comes to shove! But I think nondenominational charistmatic (like John said) might be as close as you're gonna get. Or you might wanna try an Assembly of God church. You're not far from the kingdom my son . It's just that they're pre-millennial, which is important for their ministers but much less so among laity. No worry there.
Tom
I agree with Tom  Sounds like you should go to a church like mine Non-denominational, somewhat charasmatic (definitely gifted!) and welcomes everyone, a real mix of everything from "soup to nuts" (sounds like you'd fit in just fine)! Ok...so it's late and I'm trying to be funny here.
We have a church with a 5 couple pastoral team (elder's council) and board - not one pastor, so we are quite unique. We have a motto: "gathered to equip, scattered to serve."
Seriously, we have everything in our church. Hence, love has become a primary focus...walking alongside people, encouraging them in their walk and worship.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 5/13/2004 10:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Jack,
I understand what you're saying, but perhaps we could take a different approach towards this dilemna. Do we really have to pit doctrine against relationships? Is there not some kind of balance whereby they are given equal consideration? After all, Jesus said that we would be identified as his disciples by the fact that we love one another (i.e., our relationships with fellow believers). He did not make any such statement regarding our doctrinal creed.
I don't say this to minimize doctrine; I say it to emphasize relationships. I am closer to Arminianism than I am to Calvinism, yet I have attended a Calvinist church for over 10 years. The way I look at it, there is more unity in our purpose than disunity. I also don't fantasize that all of these theological disagreements will, or even can, be resolved in my lifetime.
In an earlier message, you wrote, "Still, neither one holds to all of the beliefs that I do" [regarding AOG and Methodists]. To this I say, Good luck finding any denomination or person that does hold to all of your beliefs.
Payaso
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 5/13/2004 11:15 PM (GMT -6) | | Again, we find ourselves forming battle lines, either on the side of truth, or on the side of love.
An interesting study by K. McElhanon showed that, in English, we conceptualize "truth" in terms of an object metaphor. That is, we say stuff like:
Search out the truth.
I found the truth.
We have to guard the truth.
Spread the truth.
We use the "object" metaphor to speak about truth because that is how we conceptualize it--like as if it were some kind of thing. Thus, in the NT, we consistently use nouns when translating passages that speak of truth. But the Greek does not always use nouns when speaking of truth. Sometimes, truth is a verb.
One example is Ephesians 4:15. Most English versions have something like "speak the truth" as though "truth" were a "thing" to be said. But in the Greek, "truth" is a verb. The metaphor is different because "truth" is conceptualized differently.
I haven't read Søren Kirkegaard, but I've heard that he made this same point. Truth is not only something we find, defend, spread; it is something we live.
Maybe it would help if (in addition to seeing truth as a doctrinal statement) we try to think of truth as a way of relating to others. Then maybe we wouldn't have to "put doctrines above relationships" quite so often.
Payaso
P.S.: I am not suggesting that we go to the other extreme of tossing out all doctrine simply in the name of relationships. Instead, I think we can find a certain harmony so we don't have to put one above the other.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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msekee
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 5/28/2004 4:55 PM (GMT -6) | | What an interesting thread!
Jo-Anne - your church sounds so great. I hope I can feel that way about a church again. It's been - well - forever.
I used to feel bad that I didn't have a position on every doctrine. For example - I never could decide if I was pre-trib or post-trib. Both sides had such compelling arguments. Now I think it's better not to be so decisive on all issues. It closes off our minds and makes us unable to listen humbly to other brothers and sisters who are on the journey just like us. We start to think to ourselves "Oh I can't believe they think that!" in a rather superior tone.
Would I go to a church that baptizes babies? Not sure. Depends on how they handle salvation. Would I go to a church that had people speaking in tongues? Probably not - but just because it makes me uncomfortable being the stuffy New England girl that I am. 
But above all - especially after our last church experience, I would look at what the church sees as it's purpose - not what it says it believes on paper. What are they trying to accomplish? I've recently heard some Christians say that some believers over-emphasize love above other attributes of God - but Jesus himself did this when he told us what the greatest commandments were - so yes - as cheesy and corny as it may sound - I look for a church that is trying their best to live out God's love. Reaching out to the community, taking care of each other, and even treating each other with love - always - even when they disagree. | | Back to Top | | |
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larris
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 5/29/2004 3:31 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Lost,
I do not personally attend Church any longer, since I got delivered from the need to belong to a group several years ago. But other than say, "CUT AND RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN", here is my basic advise.
ANY Ecumenical Lutheran, Methoidist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, or Catholic Church (among the multitude of others) will do, since ecumentical Chruches are all going the same direction REGARDLESS OF DOCTRINE. You should be plum welcome since you embrace at least one belief of all faiths. Just visit a bunch of them and then make up your mind on which one you would like to attend as far as the pastor and people, programs et. True to their ecumenical form they should welcome you with open arms.
Webster's Online
ecumenical 1 : worldwide or general in extent, influence, or application. 2 a : of, relating to, or representing the whole of a body of churches b : promoting or tending toward worldwide Christian unity or cooperation. synonym CATHOLIC
( This message was sponcered by the  of this world.
 "Can you say ec-u-men-i-cal" (Parody of Mr. Rogers, a "joke" you know "humor".) 
In the love of christ,
larris
"If you continue (abide and live) in my word, then you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Jesus Christ. (John 8:31) | | Back to Top | | |
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