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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/11/2004 5:01 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by jefscott
POW,
My point is that the ressurection, anointing, etc. involve SOME change of state which occurs at a point in time. The phrase "eternally begotten" robs the language of that "point in time" action that the scriptural examples have. Once we go prior to the "First-born of creation" event (or to timelessness), it seems unscriptural to speak of Him as being begotten.
The conventional terms are "only-begotten" to refer to the Son's deity; and "first-begotten" refers to the son's entry into the world and salvific work. That makes handling this all clearer. The only-begotten is of one essence with the Father, etc... The "first-born/first-begotten" is herolded in all the moments of the Gospels.
That helps me. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/13/2004 10:23 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
The classical doctrine of the relationship of the Son of God to the Father God was that he was "begotten, not made," and further, that he was "eternally begotten," (i.e., not in time). Otherwise stated at Nicea, "there never was a time when the Son did not exist."
However, given that Open Theists deny the classical idea of "an eternal now," or "God outside of time," how can Open Theists also affirm the eternality of the Son of God? Or can they?
Let me be clear that I am not at all happy with the idea that Open Theism might seem to imply Arianism. I am very staunchly trinitarian in the sense that I believe the Nicene doctrine makes the most sense of the biblical data, and agrees with Scripture and Reason. My motivation for posing this question is simply to get feedback from some Open View adherents such as frequent this forum, not to provide more cannon fodder for the opponents of Open Theism.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
John
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/25/2004 2:32 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel
quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
The classical doctrine of the relationship of the Son of God to the Father God was that he was "begotten, not made," and further, that he was "eternally begotten," (i.e., not in time). Otherwise stated at Nicea, "there never was a time when the Son did not exist."
However, given that Open Theists deny the classical idea of "an eternal now," or "God outside of time," how can Open Theists also affirm the eternality of the Son of God? Or can they?
Let me be clear that I am not at all happy with the idea that Open Theism might seem to imply Arianism. I am very staunchly trinitarian in the sense that I believe the Nicene doctrine makes the most sense of the biblical data, and agrees with Scripture and Reason. My motivation for posing this question is simply to get feedback from some Open View adherents such as frequent this forum, not to provide more cannon fodder for the opponents of Open Theism.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
John
Interestingly, Arias preached that the Son was created in time, but before anything else. | | Back to Top | | |
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