Open Theism Discussion Board
  HomeLog InRegisterSearch the ForumHelp
   
Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Acts 13:48  Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member




Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
 
   Posted 5/26/2004 2:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I haven't heard any interpretations of Acts 13:48 that I felt adequately answered the deterministic one. But here is a recent attempt which sounds pretty appealing to me. Any responses?

http://www.faithalone.org/news/y2004/wilkin3.html

Payaso Clown


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

Back to Top
 

John Earp
Registered Member


Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
 
   Posted 5/26/2004 2:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've read some scholars who translate this, "As many as were disposed to eternal life..." This seems to avoid determinism and also to affirm the voluntary nature of belief.



"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

Back to Top
 

Hobbes
Registered Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 63
 
   Posted 5/27/2004 8:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Payaso,

I've spent much time in conflict with Calvinists over this passage. Here is a little bit - and there's more where that came from!

The participle translated "had been appointed to" (tetagmenoi) is the middle-passive voice form of “tasso”. In Greek, the same form is used to designate both the middle voice and the passive voice. Almost all English Bibles translate it in the passive voice (the subject receives the action). However, if it is translated in the middle voice (the subject initiates the action), the passage would read something like, “ . . .as many as agreed with eternal life believed."

The issue is:

1) Is there anything in the Greek grammar itself that demands a passive or a middle voice rendering?
2) Is there anything in the immediate context that would indicate which voice Luke intended?

Concerning the Greek grammar: What is middle voice? Unlike English, Greek has a middle voice that represents actions or conditions that are self-imposed. An example of English renderings of middle and passive voice phrases would be,

a) I am helping myself - middle voice
b) I am being helped (by another) - passive voice.

There is nothing in the Greek word itself that can tell us which voice is intended. However, there are convincing historical arguments that ancient Greeks saw the default rendering of "tetagmenoi" as middle voice, even as modern Greeks do. For example, the most current and largest publication on Verbs in Greece, the Lexicon of Ancient Greek Verbs by B. D. Anagnostopoulos (a book without theological interests), shows "tetagmenos" on page 1099, in the middle voice. Even in ancient Greek manuscripts, we can find “tetagmenoi” used the way I am suggesting it was used in Acts 13:48. It is quite evident that ancient Greeks generally understood "tetagmenoi" to be in the middle voice. Calvinists (as well as translators) need to give compelling grammatical or contextual reasons for a passive rendering.

The word literally means, “being set in position”. The “position” can be either physical or intellectual. Undeniably then, "tassomai" can describe volition and resolve (an intellectual disposition), whether this is divine or human. This meaning agrees with most Greek lexicons, many of which include middle voice definitions such as: I agree, I am devoted to, I consent with, I promise, I undertake, I take position, I take side. Indeed, this is exactly how the word is interpreted in 1Co16:15: “You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the saints. –NIV

If we use this definition, the verse in question would read, “…those that were sided (or aligned, or agreed) with eternal life…” Or more plainly: “…those that had sided with eternal life…”

- Hobbes
Back to Top
 

¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member




Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
 
   Posted 5/28/2004 2:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hobbes,

I've always felt that context called for something other than a deterministic interpretation, but that silly middle/passive verb was like a road bump.

Thanks for the tip on Anagnostopoulos' verb book. I will have to look into that a little more. I have heard that there are some grammarians who claim there was no such thing as a "true" middle voice in NT Greek.

Payaso Clown


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

Back to Top
 

Starkman
Registered Member




Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
 
   Posted 5/29/2004 2:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Contextually supportive to Hobbes's grammar is Paul and Barnabas's statement to the Jews, who were rejecting the gospel, two verses prior to to the one in question:

13:46
"Both Paul and Barnabas replied courageously, “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life [emphasis mine], we are turning to the Gentiles." (New English Translation)

God had no more eternally predestined the Jews to disbelieve than He did the Gentiles to be saved.

Starkman
Back to Top
 

Hobbes
Registered Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 63
 
   Posted 5/29/2004 3:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Starkman.

payaso: I have heard that there are some grammarians who claim there was no such thing as a "true" middle voice in NT Greek.

Response: I have not heard that. I am not a Greek scholar but I have a friend that I consult with on questions about the Greek. He is very knowledgeable - besides being Greek and living in Greece! The info I gave you is mostly from him. All I can say is that those who wish to view this passage from a deterministic position would certainly WISH that that was the case!

-Hobbes
Back to Top
 

larris
Registered Member


Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 181
 
   Posted 5/29/2004 4:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hobbes,

I am really glad you shared that, about the passive and middle voice and the mistranslation of that scriture. It sunk in immediately.

As to what you stated here:

"If we use this definition, the verse in question would read, “…those that were sided (or aligned, or agreed) with eternal life…” Or more plainly: “…those that had sided with eternal life…”"

This really drove the whole point home for me, and I instantly recalled this verse.

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore chooose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

And again where it speaks saying "Choose you this day whom you will serve...

God is saying to choose which SIDE they are going to be on, life or death. This scripture would have been in the mind of Luke, and thus he could have easily recalled it and worded what he said in Acts in the sense of choosing "sides".

In Christ,
larris


"If you continue (abide and live) in my word, then you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Jesus Christ. (John 8:31)

Back to Top
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 1:44 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads