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June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/22/2002 7:48 AM (GMT -6)

POW

how did we get from God being good to him not being involved with time? i'm sorry, but i'm getting lost in all the terms and stuff that you're using. explain to me in your own simple terms how God can at any point not be good. it's not straightjacketing him; it is who he is in relation to his creation. just like God cannot choose to not be good, he cannot choose to not be part of the trinity. he cannot choose to not love. because that's who he is.

point out where i'm wrong,

June

deal22000
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 25

Posted 1/23/2002 1:48 PM (GMT -6)

Well, I wasn’t planning on doing this anymore, but just one more. sorry (this is too interesting.)

This probably doesn't make sense.
Doc, yes I got the faith thing for real now, that’s why I said that again in the last post. (you don’t have to yell

No, I’m not convinced god is abusive.
Doc: What if God is simply telling us what eternal life without him is like? If its true, its not bad for him to tell us this
Doc: its not selfish to want to live in God’s presence and enjoy him forever, any more than its selfish to want to eat food or drink water because your hungry or thirst.
Deal: Thanks! Good points. That helps.
Satan and demons. Not sure, but I will find out more. This would explain a lot and take some of the heat off of God for His plan not working so well (in addition to man’s disobedience) all the time. Is evil just good in need of transformation? Is that what Satan is?
PoW, thanks for your answer, but you lost me completely.
I think I liked that last definition of faith though “…the assurance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen. “ sounds less like a definiete decision on my part, leaves a little more room for having just the amount of faith I’m comfortable with. And God will do the rest.
Are you saying anything remotely (in part) like this (I Highly doubt it, but what the heck…): The real God may not be everything we think is “good,” we can’t know that, we can ONLY make a choice based on Christ, as seen in Scripture. Afterall, that’s How God chose to reveal himself to us. We can’t know God’s essence—what he is-- so don’t try. And, if we look at Christ, of course we’re going to trust God and his love.
Top, bottom, middle. Is top something that transcends us, that we can’t know (like God’s essence? Is essence the same as nature)? bottom is what we experience in life, what we can know with our senses? Middle is trying to sort of bring the top down to the bottom—-making something that transcends us into something we can understand, just because we can’t stand not understanding.
The trinity. I won’t even try to understand that one. Three persons? Lost me.
About God’s doing good rather than choosing good…are you just saying we can’t really know what he can or can’t do, because that has to do with his nature. We can only know what he shows us, what we can see, what he Does. …his actions don’t dictate who He Is. Only He does, his nature does.
About free will. If humans have it, then doesn’t God have to have it also? I mean the ability to choose.
Well, I’ll leave it at that. Did I get Anything right?
Now, I gotta get out of here. I’ll leave you folks alone to this kind of thing. thanks

Edited by - deal22000 on 01/23/2002 8:11:53 PM

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/23/2002 5:08 PM (GMT -6)

Deal: we can't know God's essence, so don't even try.

June: a difficult question! something me and POW were discussing and so was the omnibenevolence thread. we may not know God's essence, but that doesn't mean we can't know about him. God reveals to us who he is by what he has done in salvation history, what he did in Jesus Christ, and what he is doing in our lives now. we can know about God, so don't give up.

Deal: ..leaves a little more room for the amount of faith i'm comfortable with.

June: indeed it's good to be comfortable, but somethings are not easy or comfortable to have faith in. many christians become comfortable in their faith and don't allow room for growth. they get to a point and just sit there, being lukewarm. it is important that we also don't develop a take-it-on-faith attitude toward things.

Deal: if humans have free will, doesn't God?

June: God has ultimate free will. However, he doesn't (i argue cannot) ever choose anything that isn't good.

deal, you've come a long way!!! you'd better stick around, cause i know you've still got tons of questions, and we've got tons of answers! this is your thread, you've got to keep it going

June

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/26/2002 5:45 AM (GMT -6)

deal? you still there?

June

deal22000
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 25

Posted 1/29/2002 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

June—yes, I’m still here. Sorry. Just haven’t had any time to check this board lately. Any time I do have, I’ve been reading. The two books Starkman recommended (thanks!). And I’ve read Letters from a Skeptic. They’re very helpful. And a few other books I could get my hands on. And, I found some classics on the Internet. Determined to learn something here.

So, I guess I’ve been misinformed about some things. Or, not that maybe, but I’ve made some assumptions based on my very limited knowledge—not considering what other people have already said about these things. I’m seeing that there really is a case for this faith. Who knows.

So, I’m taking time to read. It may take centuries. But, something tells me this is worth it. My family can’t understand the recent turnaround in me. Why I am suddenly very interested, and suddenly thinking that maybe I have been wrong. I can’t explain it myself. But for some reason, I press on. I think part of it is that I have somehow realized that my inability to trust in God is at least as much of a reflection on me as it is a reflection on God.

I just looked at a few threads here. I really like your question about God’s moral obligation. I hope to hear what others have to say there. I enjoy Empiress, for one. Vexen makes me laugh--good insights. And some of the other people with questions that they can articulate much better than I can.

I think what first struck me about this board is that you all have so many questions, many of which I share. Yet most of you seem to accept Christianity without any serious doubts. …This still confounds me. Perhaps I was just brought up not to question anything, so when I did (because I JUST COULDN’T HELP MYSELF, OKAY???

), I assumed I didn’t belong. Meanwhile, I got on with life. Now, I see I’ve been slacking off.

I don’t have any questions to ask here right now. I’m content to leave that to everyone else here for the time being, but I’ll be looking when I can. thanks for asking

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/30/2002 5:12 AM (GMT -6)

Deal,

prayin' for ya. keep it up.

June

deal22000
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 25

Posted 2/1/2002 6:50 AM (GMT -6)

June, if you’re praying for me, I must be even worse off than I thought

I think I’ve seen/heard/read enough for right now.

I can’t explain God any better, and I know I never will, but I think I do have some more understanding of where He’s coming from. And I respect Him.

I think He is not quite the God I thought He was. I still don’t like everything He seems to do, but that’s okay. I can live with that. But, it’s the story of Christ that I cannot get around. I keep coming back to it. And I really believe it. The fact that He would even come here as a man—humiliating enough—but that He would allow Himself to be humiliated, tortured and killed, just to make a way for us to be right with Him. That IS enough for me. THAT is love.

If what He asks in return is for us to praise and trust Him, whether that is out of pure (we’d say unselfish) love, or as a way of glorifying Himself…that doesn’t really matter. It’s still love. It’s a DEAL. One I am grateful for.

I was thinking about a friend of mine who committed suicide a while back. He was a very good man. His young daughter had just died from a horrific battle with cancer. He lost his faith. So did his wife. And most of our friends have seriously questioned their own. They couldn’t understand why God would let that happen. I said, well, that’s God—take it or leave it. I still see absolutely no good, no glory coming from that. Only pain and doubt, and anger.
I don’t know why it seems to have had the opposite effect on me alone. I started thinking about these things, trying to make sense. I found this board, and thought, so that’s it, my friend was just a casualty of war. Insignificant, unless you really knew him. But what I came up with is not at all what I expected. I somehow came up with a God who loves his creation so much, that His heart must have a burning hole in it even bigger than mine. No, not wishful thinking, but the evidence seems to be there. The rest…I think I can live with some mystery. One thing about God—I believe He doesn’t lie.

So I’ll go to church with my family. (can’t wait to see their jaws drop!) I’ll teach my children to pray, and worship, and I will do the same. And other than that, I’ll go on with my life pretty much the same as before. I’ll still have a lot of questions, and I'll ask them. Except, I’ll stick up for God. I’ll try to be loyal. Just as I am loyal to the memory of my friend (whom I Don’t believe is burning in hell right now. Not because he was my friend. Not because I can’t reconcile the thought of eternal suffering. But because he was good, pure and simple. And if god gives him half a chance, I know my friend will not turn his back on that.). Just as I think God has proven Himself to have been loyal to His creation, and WE are a PART of that. Even if it's a small part.

Fivefold
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18

Posted 2/25/2002 6:40 AM (GMT -6)

Predestination and Election in Relation to Redemption

It should be noted that predestination and election are related to redemption.

Predestination is God's eternal plan encompassing all events, including the establishment of a kingdom made up of his redeemed children, and ruled over by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Election is God's choice of those who will inhabit that kingdom. This distinction between the two terms is seen, for example, in Ephesians 1:4-5. Paul spoke of election or choice in verse 4, "According as He hath chosen us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world," and in verse 5 he set forth the more comprehensive concept of predestination, the plan of God, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Christ Jesus." The plan is set forth in verse 11. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance [speaking of Christ], being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will."

Predestination and election cannot be lifted out of their context or they seem harsh. Man is dead in trespasses and sin and if left to himself he could never rise above these circumstances; however, it has been in God's eternal plan to take the initiative and redeem those He has chosen or elected. Predestination and election are not harsh if presented Scriptually because God in His mercy has freely offered the gospel to all men; but not all men "will" to receive it. It is not so much they "cannot" but they "will not." Jesus and Paul presented the truth of election to a person only after he had accepted or rejected the grace which was offered him (John 6:41-44; Romans 9-11). The Bible does not suggest that all people will be saved (universalism), but it teaches just the opposite---that some will reject the gospel and be lost. Revelation 13:8 shows that there are those "whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Calvinism and Arminianism

The study of predestination and election as they relate to redemption would not be complete without some understanding of Arminianism and Calvinism, since they are definitely a part of modern theology.

John Calvin (1509-1564 A.D.) moved to Geneva, Switzerland, in 1536 to guide the Reformation that had already begun there. His system of theology is based on the absolute sovereignty of God, and is essentially in line with Scripture. He taught that man through the fall became totally depraved and lost his freedom of will and his power to choose what is right. He said Christ died for the ones He effectually calls and saves, leaving the rest of mankind under condemnation, which man justly deserves because of willful sin and rejection of the truth. Since all men are under the just condemnation of God because of sin, he taught that God cannot be charged with unjust action in choosing some by His grace from among those who are dead in sins and trespasses, and predestinating them to eternal life.

The five points of Calvinism are as follows: 1) Total depravity. Man is entirely lost and dead in sin, and thus, cannot choose salvation apart from grace. 2) Unconditional Election. God chooses whom He will. 3) Limited Atonement. Christ died savingly for the elect. 4) Irresistible (effective) Grace. God's grace produces the effect which He intended. 5) Perseverance of all the Saints. All those God calls and saves will endure to the end. These five principles may be best remembered by the acrostic T-U-L-I-P, formed by the first letter of each point.

Arminianism arose in the reformed church in the Netherlands in protest to Calvinism. Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609 A.D.) and his followers basically rejected: 1) limited atonement to the elect, 2) unconditional election where God alone chooses who will be saved, and 3) irresistible grace. He also tried to refute the doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God. His teachings were later adopted by Wesley.

The essential points of Arminianism are: 1) Election or condemnation is dependent upon man's free choice of God's grace. 2) Christ's atonement was for the whole world, not just the elect. 3) Saving grace is not irresistible; it can be rejected. 4) Man can fall away from grace and lose his salvation.

Arminianism emphasizes that man accepts Christ. Nowhere in the Bible are sinners ever said to have accepted Jesus, and they are never invited to accept Him. On the contrary, the Word of God says He must accept man, and man receives Him. Ephesians 1:4-6 says that God has accepted the Christian in Christ Jesus when he believes. John 1:2 says that as many as receive Him, to them He gives the power or authority to become the children of God. Men receive Him; He accepts them.

An extreme to avoid is Hyper-Calvinism, which results in a fatalistic attitude toward one's destiny. As one man said, "If I'm elected, I'll learn of it before I die, and I'll be saved. If not, then it's hopeless, and there is nothing I can do or should about it." Calvin did not teach Hyper-Calvinism, but some of his followers did.

The Calling

The Bible speaks of a calling that God gives to sinners through the preaching of the gospel to believe, repent, and be saved. Mark 1:14-15 says, "Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

The General Calling

There is one gospel call with two aspects: a general call and a special or effectual call. The general call is an outward call to all men through the gospel, to which they may or may not respond. It is heard by the ear but not necessarily by the heart (Mark 1:14-15). This general call is a warning---repent or be eternally lost! The one who responds to the warning is saved. There is nothing to prevent a man from responding; each person makes his own choice. "Whosoever will may come" (John 3:16; Isaiah 55:1; Revelation 22:17). "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28).

The Special Calling

Within this one call is the special or effectual call. This inner call is the Spirit's work in a man which effects the necessary response to the gospel. The sinner believes, repents, acts on what he hears, and he is saved. The Holy Spirit's ministry here is not only to convict, but also to influence and lead the sinner to exercise faith and to repent of his sins (I Peter 1:2). This call makes effective what God predestinated (I Thessalonians 5:23-24; Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:3-11).

The effectual call is distinguished form the general call in certain passages in the New Testament. "For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14). Also Matthew 20:16; I Corinthians 1:23-31; Matthew 11:27. This effectual call is a holy calling, according to II Timothy 1:9, "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." In the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13 there were several responses to the call. There was no response; external, superficial, conditional responses; and an inward response.

How is the teaching on calling related to the doctrine of redemption? The Christian was predestinated and elected to salvation before the foundation of the world. This is clearly taught in Ephesians 1:4-5, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, ....Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children." God did not chose someone who would later refuse to believe; but he that is chosen must hear the gospel, believe the gospel, and exercise faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He will see, after he has done all this, that God had chosen him before the foundation of the world. This is seen in II Thessalonians 2:13-14 where Paul said, "We are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethern beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." Before the world began, He chose believers to salvation. How? Through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: "Whereunto he called you by our gospel." The elect are called by the gospel to a specific time in history for the purpose of obtaining the salvation to which they have been predestinated.

Predestination is God's eternal plan to save a people and to prepare a kingdom for His own name's sake. Election is the eternal choice of those people who are to be in His family and who are to be the citizens of His kingdom. The call is God putting that plan into operation.

Some people who object to the truth of predestination and election would argue, "If predestination and election are true, God would be making an arbitrary choice and the person chosen to be saved would not have to do anything--he would be saved anyway." However, that is not what the Bible teaches about election, predestination, and calling. Remember, Paul said in II Thessalonians 2:13-14 that sinners have to hear the gospel and respond to it. They have to believe! From the beginning God has chosen some to salvation through the belief of the truth. The elect are those who will believe the truth when it is preached to them.

Why does God give a call to all men if all men will not be saved? It will make them responsible. There is nothing hindering them from responding to the gospel, except their own unwillingness. They do not want to give up an evil heart of unbelief. From God's side, He chooses those whom He will call effectually to salvation. From man's side, he hears the gospel call, and it is his responsibility to respond. The decision is entirely left in the hands of the one who hears. In John 5:40 Jesus said to the Jews, "You will not to come to me." He said that it was by an act of their will that they chose not to believe Him and receive salvation.

The denominational church today is largely Armenian. They deny the sovereignty of God in salvation. They deny the truths of predestination, foreknowledge, and election, or they twist and pervert their meanings so much that they end up with a salvation-by-works theology. They say, "God foresaw who would believe and He elected them." However, that would not be salvation by grace; it would be God foreseeing something man would do--his works. The precious truths of election and predestination do not minister pride in those who understand their purpose; rather, they are humbled, knowing that God has chosen them by His grace before the foundation of the world.

Fivefold
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18

Posted 2/25/2002 6:44 AM (GMT -6)

The Doctrine of Faith

Another aspect of redemption is the doctrine of faith. Faith and the Christian religion are really synonymous. All that man receives from God is by faith, whether salvation or the healing of every disease. Hebrews 11:6 says that without faith it is impossible to please God; therefore, faith is the key to everything in the Christian's life. It is very important for the believer to have a thorough understanding of the subject because the principles of faith apply to all the promises of God.

The Nature of Faith

In reference to the nature of faith, its general usage in the New Testament refers to the whole body of Christian truth. Jude 3 exhorts, "Earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." In Galatians 1:23 Paul said he was preaching the faith which he once destroyed.

In personal application faith is an attitude of the heart (John 3:16). "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Romans 10:10). Faith is also an act. Peter was acting his faith when he walked on the water to Jesus (Matthew 14:27-31). Faith is also a confession (Matthew 8:7-8; 9:21-22; Mark 9:23-24; 11:23-24; Romans 10:10). Faith is trust in God. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct the paths" (Proverbs 3:5-6; also Job 13:15; Mark 11:22; Hebrews 10:23).

The Definition of Faith

The definition of faith is given only one place in the Bible--Hebrews 11:1. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Faith consists of two elements. It is the substance of whatever a Christian is believing or hoping for, and it is the very evidence of things yet invisible. Faith is the material used by God to provide His children with what He has promised them. When the child of God exercises faith, he is giving God the substance out of which He will provide the answer. Faith is not seeing or feeling, but it is evidence of the invisible. When God manifests the answer visibly, exercising faith is no longer necessary. Faith is present when the believer knows he has received the answer to his prayer before it is manifested in the visible realm, and he believes in his heart that God has heard and answered his petition. Evidence of anything is absolute proof of its existence. God's Word is to be believed by faith, and this faith in the heart is the evidence that God has supplied the answer. The Author's book, Faith for Healing, gives a detailed study of the subject of faith.

In Galatians 5:22 faith is listed as one of the fruits of the Spirit, and it is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit according to I Corinthians 12.

Saving Faith

Salvation by faith means that faith, not works, is the ordained means of obtaining salvation from sin. The Scriptures state that all have sinned; and there are none righteous; all have violated God's laws and commandments. If forgivness comes to a man, it has to be on God's terms---by faith in the sacrificial blood atonement of Jesus Christ. Nothing is more clearly stated in the New Testament than the truth of salvation by faith. "For by grace ye are saved through faith;....Not of Works" (Ephesians 2:8-9). No one can be saved by religious works, nor by personal merits or goodness, but solely by the grace of God and believing the gospel. While the believer's works are not the means to obtain salvation, they are not to be absent in his life either. Paul also said in Ephesians 2:10 that Christians have been ordained to the producing of good works. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works."

Saving Faith Versus Intellectual Assent

It is very important to see that genuine saving faith is to be distinguished from intellectual assent. Many people in the churches believe with their heads and not their hearts, but that is not saving faith. They do not have a living faith in Jesus Christ; they only have an intellectual belief in the historical facts about Him. They have faith about Jesus, and they think that is faith in Jesus. Some join a church and deluded themselves into thinking that they have saving faith because they believe in the historical account about Jesus. They believe what the Bible says about Him, His works, and His deity, and they have adopted Christianity as their religion; but they have not really repented of their sins. Many who regularly attend church services have not been born again. Proof of this is that they do not have changed lives; they do not believe His promises; and they often oppose anyone who exercises faith in those promises. Only those who have a living faith in Jesus can believe for the things He has provided.

Some will say, "Well I believe Jesus was the Son of God." They may even believe in the fact of the resurrection, in the facts of the incarnation and virgin birth; yet they still lack a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. A man can believe these truths with his intellect and still be lost, which is often the reason he may fall away in time of trial and testing.

The Parable of the Sower clearly presents a form of belief that is not a saving faith. This explains why some resist the move of the Holy Spirit today, and why some support denominational, institutional religion and reject the clear teaching of the Word of God concerning the nature and pattern of the church in the New Testament. The conclusion is that some have given intellectual assent to John 3:16, but they do not have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. To these He will one day say, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." See Matthew 7:21-23.

Ministers need to put the emphasis on salvation where the Bible puts it; on a new birth, a changed life, and obedience to all of God's commandments. Then their hearers will not be deluded into thinking that they have a saving faith because they believe certain facts in the Bible about Jesus and some of the things He said. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." It is impossible for men to enter the Kingdom of God by merely confessing Jesus and calling Him Lord; they must also do the will of God.

Saving Faith Versus Believism

Some teach that all the sinner has to do is believe, "Just come and make a confession, and you will be saved." This is not biblical--it is believism. The one in need of forgivness must exercise faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and this will result in a changed life. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" (II Corinthians 5:17). Believing in Jesus is a fact of Scripture; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16); but if a man has a saving belief, it will change him. A person is not saved, according to the Bible, just because he says he believes in Jesus. That is the basis to be sure; but if he truly believes in Jesus savingly, he will walk in His steps. Jesus said, "And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:27). Not to be His disciple is not to be saved.

How can someone test if he has head faith of heart faith? If there is a radical, godly change in his life, it is evidence of genuine faith. If his belief about Jesus has been translated into actions and deeds, he has been born again. If not, it is just mental assent.

The Relationship Between Faith and Reason

Faith is not intellectual knowledge, wisdom, or reasoning (I Corinthians 1:18-29; 2:1-5). One cannot reason himself into faith. Figuratively, Christians believe with the heart and not with the head. In the Old Testament the "heart" was the inner man, the person, the ego, in contrast to the educated intellect. On the basis of that usage, Jesus and Paul used the term "heart" in reference to the inner man. Jesus said that out of the heart come murders and other evils. Paul said that with the heart man believes unto righteousness. Such faith is born, not of the mind or intellect, but of the inner man.

The Scriptures do not obscure the fact that man was created with a mind, with senses, with powers of reason, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding which can glorify God if rightly motivated. God gave man a mind capable of believing and exercising faith, and God reaches man's spirit by speaking to his mind. There is nothing wrong with reason, intellect, and the mind when a person is sanctified, born again, and a new creation in Christ.

The disciples were eye witnesses of sense evidence facts, which formed the basis of their gospel (John 2:11; 10:37-38; 20:30-31; II Peter 1:6-18; I John 1:1-3). All of these Scriptures present factual evidence, and are written that the reader might believe. When the disciples saw Jesus turn water into wine, they believed He was the Messiah on the basis of sense evidence. The disciples had seen Jesus, had heard Him, and had touched him, so they could say, "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you" (I John 1:3). Peter said in II Peter 1:16-18, we "were eyewitnesses of His majesty." In John 10:37-38 Jesus appealed to His works so the people would believe on Him.

The significance of these things is this: Paul said in Romans 10:17 that faith comes through hearing the Word. The Word comes through the ear or the eye, and not by some mystical impartation of faith apart from hearing the Word. This does not mean spiritual comprehension is with the mind, because faith is a gift of God; but it does not come apart from hearing or reading the Word. The only basis for faith is the Word of God. As one hears or reads the Word, it enters the mind, and can be picked up by the spirit.

There is no contradiction between faith and the intellect if the proper distinction is kept between them, and if one is not substituted for the other; however, the powers of reason and sense knowledge cannot be used in the faith realm. The disciples saw and reported sense evidence facts, which men may hear with the physical ear and brain. God has given man a mind, intellect, and reason to enable him to live his physical life on earth--to exist in the sense realm. He could not understand God's Word if he were not a rational creature with adequate senses to comprehend the Word of God.

Saving faith is a gift, and redemption is by grace; but man has the responsibility to believe. If he will heed the Word when he hears it, the gift of faith will be given him. The gospel is based on eyewitness reports, and is received by the intellect; yet the mind is not the source of faith--it is but the doorway to the inner man. God contacts man through the ear, the eye, and the mind; but it is only the spirit which is capable of discerning and responding to the hidden wisdom of God which resides in the outward letter of the Word.

Fivefold
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18

Posted 2/25/2002 6:50 AM (GMT -6)

The Doctrine of Repentance

Faith and repentance are always found together when a person becomes a Christian. Faith precedes and is the basis for repentance. Why? No one repents of his sins until he has heard the gospel concerning God's judgment against sin, and His offer to pardon and forgiveness in Jesus Christ. If he believes this, it becomes the basis or the motivation for genuine repentance.

The term repentance in the Old Testament means "to turn," that is, to turn from walking in one direction and to begin walking in an opposite direction. In this case it would be from the world toward God. In the New Testament, the term "repent" means to change or turn the mind. In regard to redemption, it means to turn away from sin unto righteousness, to change the mind about sin, Jesus Christ, and God.

Sometimes a form of this word is translated "to feel regret." A man does feel regret for his sins when he truly repents; but regret for sin is not the same as the idea of true repentance, which is changing the mind about sin and turning to God. After a murder has been sent to prison, he may be sorry he killed someone; but if he does it again after he has been freed, it proves that his regret was not repentance. The idea of regret is used of Judas in Matthew 27:3. After he betrayed Jesus, he had remorse; but he did not change his ways. He went out and committed suicide.

Repentance is seen in Scripture to be a gift. It is God who gives repentance, just as He gives faith. God gave repentance to Israel (Acts 5:31). He gives repentance to the Gentiles (Acts 11:18). Even though repentance is a gift, it is man's responsibility to do the repenting. In Mark 1:14-15 Jesus preached that men were to believe the gospel and repent of their sins. In Acts 17:30 Paul said that God "commandeth all men every where to repent." This means that man repents under the influence of the Holy Spirit and responds in faith to the message of the gospel.

A man who has genuinely repented of his sins cannot remain in those sins--he has been "born again" to a new life in Christ. This term, "born again," is used loosely today by many people who give no evidence that they have changed their ways. Celebrities, movie stars, and sports figures talk about being born again; but they continue living and talking like the world. Their interests are in the world; but evidence of genuine repentance is a changed mind toward God, sin, and Jesus Christ. The truly repentant person recognizes that he is guilty before God, and acknowledges it. He abandons all of his resistance and rebellion against truth, God, and His commandments. He accepts God's rule in his life. He changes his mind toward everything, and this changing of his mind changes his ways, so he no longer walks in sin.

True repentance will result in works of righteousness in the Christian's life. In Matthew 3:8 John the Baptist said to the religious leaders who came to his baptism, "bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance." In other words, "Prove that you have repented by your good works, and then come to my baptism." Faith and repentance are inseparably related. If a man has saving faith in Christ, it will result in repentance from sin, and these together will result in a changed way of life, a changed mind about sin.

The Doctrine of Regeneration

Regeneration and conversion are really two sides of the same coin. From God's side the salvation experience is regeneration, and from man's side it is conversion. According to God's Word, man is in a desperate state; he is dead spiritually and in need of being regenerated or converted. Paul said, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" alienated from God spiritually, "and were by nature the children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:1-3). Also see Romans 3:9-23; 5:12-21. While man was yet a sinner, , God showed His love toward him and sent His Son into the world to die for him (Romans 5:8). All men are sinners, alienated from God, and are totally unable to change their spiritual condition. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil" (Jeremiah 13:23). Paul said in I Corinthians 2:14, "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

In Romans 1 Paul said that God gave the ungodly up to uncleanness, gave them up to vile affections, and gave them over to a reprobate mind. These are not just assumptions, but they are truths set forth in the Word of God. Man's need is nowhere more clearly taught than in Jesus' own words in John 3 where He said that a man must be born again or he will never see the Kingdom of God.

Evidences of Regeneration

There are certain evidences which would indicate that a person has truly been born of God. Regeneration is known by its effects on the inner man as well as on the outward man. Belief in Christ is an internal evidence of regeneration (I John 5:1). John 8:42 says if God is a man's father, that man will love Christ; and in Romans 8:16 Paul said that the Spirit within the Christian will bear witness within his own spirit that he is a child of God.

There are certain external evidences of regeneration. For example, I John 2:29 says, "Every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him." The Christian will not live in sin and the habits of the old life. I John 4:7 says, "Every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God." If a person is born of God, he will overcome this world (I John 5:4). "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not" (I John 5:18), and will do works of righteousness (Ephesians 2:10).

The Doctrine of Conversion

The other side of regeneration is conversion. Regeneration speaks of God's work; conversion speaks of what happens to man. Regeneration is described as the new birth, and it results in a new way of life. "If any man be in Christ [that is, if he is converted], he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (II Corinthians 5:17). Paul further stated in Romans 8 that a person who has been born again will be walking in the Spirit.

Regeneration or conversion is not a process or a growth; it is an instantaneous experience. It is called a birth. Some individuals are trying to live righteous lives and are doing religious works in substitution for the new birth; but the new birth "converts" a man into a new creation, and the good works follow.

Regeneration is an instantaneous, supernatural work of God wrought in the heart or life of the new believer. If a man has been born again, a new power in his life takes over and enables him to overcome sin. The Spirit of Christ and the new life within are more powerful than that old life, Satan, and the world. The Apostle Paul, in Galatians 5:16-25, contrasted the works of the flesh with the works of the Spirit. If a professing Christian is still performing the works of the flesh, he is not in Christ and has not become a new creation. Without the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit in his life, there is nothing to convince others that he has been born again.

The Doctrine of Justification

Justification is a vitally important aspect of the doctrine of redemption. In fact, justification is one of the central issues of the Bible because it deals with the complex question, How can a righteous, holy God forgive sinners and accept them as if they had never sinned?" The answer will indicate why justification and atonement, which are given by grace, are inseparably related.

The doctrine of justification is taught in both the Old and New Testaments. In Isaiah 53:11 the prophet foretold that Messiah by His death would "justify many." Hebrews 11:4 speaks of justifying sinners. Romans 4:3 and other passages show that justification is by faith. It was the restoration of the truth of man's justification by faith that brought on the Protestant Reformation under Luther. For a detailed study of the truth of justification by faith, see Romans and Galatians.

The term for justification never means "to make one righteous." In reference to man it means "to count, impute, or declare one righteous," and in reference to God it means "to be righteous" or "declare to be righteous." See Luke 7:29; I Timothy 3:16; Deuteronomy 25:1. The Bible does not teach that a man is righteous because he believes in Christ, but he is counted as righteous. To be sure, if a man is born again, he has a new nature which is righteous; but God at some point has to deal with man's sins. He cannot overlook sin. Because man is guilty before the law, God, in His love, has provided an atonement. He does not ignore sin; but He, through Christ, has satisfied the demands that His law has against sinners. Since all men are sinners, all are guilty; all must die. God's plan to justify man does not suggest that the believer has never sinned, or that he is not guilty; but by the repentant sinner's faith in the atonement of Jesus, God will treat him as if he had fulfilled His law and as if he were not guilty. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in the Christian's heart by faith (Romans 8:4).

The Moral Basis for Justification

The moral basis for justification could not be through man's obedience to God's commandments ( Romans 3:20; Galatians 3:10,21), or through the observance of religious rites. Romans 4:9-11 shows that Abraham was justified before the religious rite of circumcision was given. The moral basis for justification could not be man's moral nature or character, because men are by nature children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Psalm 130:3).

The moral basis for justification was the satisfaction fully rendered by Jesus Christ, the innocent, for the demands the law held against the guilty. "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Romans 3:25-26).

God sent His Son to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that were past, those committed prior to His coming. All of the sins that were atoned for by animal sacrifices were not remitted. God's wrath was appeased by those sacrifices on the basis that His Son would eventually satisfy His wrath through the shedding of His own blood. If Christ had not come, all the Old Testament saints would have perished even with their sins forgiven. His ultimate sacrifice made all the others valid.

These verses reveal God's patience in waiting for Christ to be offered, so that those who believed could be justified. God cannot arbitrarily justify a sinner; that is, He cannot forgive sins without a basis. He could not arbitrarily justify Jesus if He became a sinner. These verses show that the Cross itself proves Jesus could not have become a sinner, because god was demanding righteous payment for the sins of man--al those sins He forgave in the past and those He is going to forgive that will be committed in the future. God put Christ on the Cross to prove He was righteous. God did not arbitrarily forgive, but He came Himself in the person of Himself.

Remember, the Godhead cannot be divided. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. How could Jesus be a sinner if the Father was in Christ while He was reconciling the world unto Himself? It proves Jesus could not literally become sin on the Cross. Man' sins were imputed to Him, charged to Him. He bore the guilt and punishment for sins as the lamb did. The lamb could not become a sinner. Sinfulness is what a person does. When did Jesus ever sin? Never! At Calvary Jesus was saying He was in the perfect will of God. On the Cross Jesus was righteous and remained righteous, and God accepted Him.

Moses and Elijah were concerned about the soon death of Jesus because they came and talked to Him about it on the Mount of Transfiguration. Their sins were forgiven, but the curse had to be lifted by the death of their sinless substitute, Jesus Christ.

The Doctrine of Imputation

The term for imputation in the Hebrew means "to think, to account, to reckon, to impute." See Psalm 106:30-31; Romans 4; Leviticus 7:18; 17:4. It does not imply a transfer of moral qualities but of legal guilt and punishment, or legal righteousness.

The Scriptures teach that Christians are counted as righteous. In imputation God considers the believer no longer guilty, as if he had fulfilled His law. For example, Genesis 15:6 says that Abraham believed God and it was counted or imputed to him for righteousness. He was not righteousness in himself, but his faith was counted as righteousness. This may be seen again in Romans 4 where Paul said that God counts His children as righteous because of their faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. God said, in effect, "I will not impute man's guilt to him. I will impute his punishment to an innocent substitute, Jesus Christ. I will impute to him righteousness; that is, I will credit it to his account. I will count him as righteous." Man is neither guiltless not righteous in himself; but by his faith in the guiltless, righteous Son of God, who suffered in his place and paid the punishment for the guilt of his sins, the Father God treats him, counts him, as guiltless and righteous.

The subject here is not specifically the new birth, but is the method God has ordained to deal with man's guilt so that he can become a new creation. God cannot say that man is righteous simply because he believes in Christ. Actually, man is guilty and is alienated from God. He is a sinner; but through his faith in Christ, the righteousness of the law is imputed unto him.

To impute something to someone is to enter it to his account. The Bible speaks of the books that God keeps in which men's works are recorded. When a sinner turns to Christ, the blood of Jesus covers over the pages, figuratively speaking, and erases them. Then God takes His pen and writes on the other side of the ledger, "Not guilty--because he trusted in My Son, Jesus Christ. Because of his faith, I now impute righteousness unto him."

The following hypothetical story illustrates the principle of imputation. A man violated the speed law, but had no money to pay the fine. However, his friend stood in his place before the judge and paid it. The judge accepted the payment and released the offender. The judge did not say that the man was not guilty, that he had not violated the law of the land, but he acknowledged that payment for his guilt had been imputed to his record. The innocent suffered the penalty of the guilty, and the offender was set free. In the context of justification, it may be said that Jesus paid the fine on man's behalf. The punishment for man's guilt was imputed to Him, as an innocent substitute. As a result, His righteousness, His fulfillment of the law, and His payment of the debt were imputed or credited to man's account.

With this in mind, the greatest work of God in this in this universe from the beginning to the end of time was neither the creation of the world, nor the resurrection of the dead, nor the performing of miracles, nor the parting of the Red Sea; but it was God's justification of the ungodly. He has great power, but the only way for Him to justify the ungodly was to come into the world and do the work Himself. Moral, spiritual righteousness is ascribed to God as one of His attributes, but it must be imputed to man. In God's sight "there is none righteous" (Romans 3:10). It is an abomination to God to justify the wicked (Proverbs 17:15). This is not speaking of the one who receives forgiveness on God's terms.

Aspects of Imputation

There are three major aspects of imputation: First, the imputation of Adam's guilt to the entire human race (I Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:12-21). Next, the imputation of the guilt and punishment of man's sins to Christ (Isaiah 53:5-6; II Corinthians 5:21; I Peter 2:24). Jesus Christ was not made literal sin; but sin was imputed to Him, and He became a most holy sin offering. Finally, the imputation of the righteousness of God to believers (Genesis 15:6; Psalm 106:31; Romans 3:22; 4:22; 8:32-33; Philippians 3:8-9).

Fivefold
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18

Posted 2/25/2002 6:53 AM (GMT -6)

The Doctrine of Santification

Another area of study related to redemption is the doctrine of sanctification. The term "sanctify" in English, Hebrew, and Greek literally means to be "set apart," "consecrated." "dedicated," and "separated" for some special function or use. There is a derived meaning in religion which means to be holy and pure, but basically the term does not speak of those concepts. In fact, in the Old Testament the word sanctify was used in reference to sodomites and prostitutes who were set apart for an evil purpose.

The Scriptures refer to the Levites and priests as being sanctified, but literally they were set apart for God's service. The alter was said to be sanctified (Exodus 40:10); it was set apart for God's sacrifice. The nation of Israel (Exodus 13:2) and the first born were sanctified or set apart (Exodus 13:2). In John 17:19 Jesus said, "I sanctify myself." He could have said, "I set myself apart or consecrate myself for this task."

Sanctification is the Scriptures is equated with holiness in the sense of moral purity and piety, because whatever is sanctified partakes of that to which it is set apart. For example, if someone is sanctified to God, it means that he is partaking of the moral qualities of God. It means that person is to be like Him. "But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of living; Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy" (I Peter 1:15-16; I Thessalonians 4:7; Ephesians 1:4).

There are three views of sanctification. 1) The Roman Catholic view teaches that water baptism of infants washes away all sin, as well as the depravity of the human nature. This error, which is also found in some Protestant denominations, is referred to as baptismal regeneration and baptismal sanctification. 2) Protestants developed the view of progressive sanctification which they say begins at conversion. Past tense sanctification is by the blood of Christ; present tense sanctification is by the Word; future tense sanctification is the belief that Christians will be perfect only when Christ returns. 3) The Biblical view of sanctification is based on the literal meaning of the term and not the derived meaning. The Christian has been set apart unto God, and He expects him to be distinctly different from the world. The Scriptures say that the believer is free from sin (Romans 6:18), he is a new creation (II Corinthians 5:17), he is dead to sin (Romans 6:2; I Peter 2:24), and he has ceased from sin (I Peter 4:1). Sanctified is what the believer is; perfected is what he is to be.

When the Scriptures speak of sanctification, they always speak of it in the past tense, already completed. "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God" ( I Corinthians 6:11). See Acts 20:32; Romans 15:16; I Corinthians 1:2; Jude 1. "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever then that are sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14). Paul said in Ephesians 5:25-26 that Christ sanctified and cleansed the church "with the washing of water by the Word." Further, "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (II Thessalonians 2:13).

There are two erroneous theories prevalent in most denominations which serve only to encourage defeat and indifference in the life of a Christian. These are the "two natures" theory and "the progressive sanctification" error. Because of such wrong teaching many Christians are convinced that they cannot be sanctified fully in this life, and they believe they have two natures--one good and one bad. As a result they resign themselves to half-hearted Christianity. The Scriptures reveal that the Christian had one nature before salvation, which was sinful, corrupt, and alienated from God. After salvation, however, that one nature is renewed by faith in Jesus Christ, and replaces the old. All men were by nature children of wrath, according to Ephesians 2:3. Man does not merely posses a sinful nature before salvation; he is sinful. After salvation, Paul said, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (II Corinthians 5:17). This would include his nature.

To argue that the believer cannot be perfect in this life confuses perfection with sanctification and contradicts the Word which commands it; "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). It also ignores the fact that the Scriptures say certain men in biblical history were perfect, for example, Job (Job 1:8), Noah (Genesis 6:9), Enoch (Hebrews 11:5; Genesis 5:22), and Moses Numbers 12:7). II Timothy 3:16-17 declares that all Scripture is given "that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." This perfection is not to be confused with "sinless perfection," an erroneous concept which states that it would be impossible to sin. Nor is it freedom from temptation or perfection of doctrine. It is the perfection of character and conduct in a Christian. Some do not walk in a perfection of consecration; but in regard to their standing, they are sanctified. There is a perfection of holiness (Ephesians 1:4; Titus 2:12-14); and there is a perfection of the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit in a Christian's life, such as love, joy, peace, and long-suffering (Galatians 5:22-23).

The Doctrine of Union With Christ

Regeneration places the believer in union with Christ, or, as expressed in the New Testament, "in Christ." All of the promises of God are applied to those who are "in Christ." "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1). When God looks at the one who is "in Christ," He sees that person covered with the righteousness of Christ. Paul said in Colossians 3:17, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus." That includes praying in His name, baptizing in His name, casting out demons in His name, healing the sick in His name, receiving the Holy Spirit in His name, etc. (John 14:13-14; Mark 16:17-18).

In some cults, such as Hinduism and Buddhism, the worshipper's so-called salvation consists of union with his deity. Supposedly, this union is achieved by absorption into the deity, and in this state the worshipper loses his own identity; he becomes one with the world or universal soul. Only in Christianity is the believer brought into union with a personal God--into a true oneness in Spirit. The Christian does not lose his personal identity, but he is restored to the image of God in all its fullness through this union (II Corinthians 5:17).

The union of the Christian with his God is a mystery and is compared with that of husband and wife as one flesh (Ephesians 5:21-32). Since the saint partakes of the divine nature (II Peter 1:4), this union is not a mere figure of speech; but it is an actual union with God Himself. The believer has been bought with a price, has become one with Christ, and is called a temple of the Holy Spirit ( I Corinthians 6:17-20). The believer is in Him, and He is in the believer ( John 14:20-23). According to Romans 8:38-39 this union is inseparable.

There are several analogies in Scripture which describe this union with Christ. By man's human nature he is in Adam, but in Christ he partakes of His divine nature. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (I Corinthians 15:22). The Christian's spiritual nature is from God. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (I John 5:1). That spiritual seed of God makes him pure ( I John 3:9).

Another analogy which describes the union with Christ is the relationship of a vine and its branches (John 15:1-5). God is the Creator of all men, but He is the Father of only those who are redeemed. Jesus Christ has given life to all men, but spiritual rebirth is only granted to His elect. Only those who are "in Him" are sustained by the life of the vine ( John 15:1-8).

In Ephesians 2:20-22 Paul gave the analogy of the Christian being like a building or temple which is built as a habitation for God. Also see I Corinthians 6:17-20. In John 6:48-63 Jesus used the analogy of partaking of the bread in Communion as His life-giving presence in His followers. By their faith in His sacrificial offering, He dwells in them. He said that eating His flesh would profit nothing, but His words would give life.

The mystery of the union with Christ is symbolized by the Christian's baptism, which shows his death to sin and his resurrection to a new life (Romans 6:1-5). The communion of the bread and cup witness to the truth that Christ is in the believer, and that he is in Him (I Corinthians 10:16-17). Washing of the saints' feet also symbolizes being one with Christ (John 13:6-8).

What are the benefits of being in union with Christ? 1) The Christian possesses the divine, eternal life of God. This life is in his Son (I John 5:11-12). 2) He becomes a partaker of the divine nature (II Peter 1:4). 3) He becomes a new creation by the new birth (John 3; II Corinthians 5:17). 4) He literally becomes a child and son of God (Galatians 4; Romans 8; I John 3). 5) He becomes a joint-heir with Christ (Galatians 4; Romans 8). 6) Union with Christ secures all spiritual and temporal blessings (Ephesians 1:3; Romans 8:31-32; I Corinthians 3:20-21). 7) It secures completeness in Him (Colossians 2:10). 8) It secures for the believer a participation in Christ's total redemptive experience. That which happened to Christ is paralleled in the life of the believer. For example, Paul related that he had to experience a crucifixion similar to Christ's. "I am crucified with Christ: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

The Doctrine of Crucifixion With Christ

What does it mean to be "crucified with Christ"? Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin, might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin" (Romans 6:6). Paul said in Romans 6:3,8, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?....Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him." He further stated in II Corinthians 5:14, "If one died for all, then were all dead." The Scriptures speak of these aspects of redemption in a legal sense. As soon as a sinner repents, God immediately imputes to him the righteousness of His Son, Jesus Christ. This is a legal transaction. God sees the new Christian as if he had obeyed the law and had been righteous, even though righteousness has only been imputed to him. In a sense, when Jesus died, God saw every elect person dead, as if that person had paid the penalty for his own sins. If God counts the Christian as righteous, he sees him as righteous. The righteousness of the law has been fulfilled by the Christian's faith (Romans 8:4). The Christian is buried with Christ in baptism (Romans 6:4), is made alive with Him (Romans 6:4-5), is raised with Him (Colossians 3:1), is exalted with Him (Ephesians 2:6), and is glorified with Him (Romans 8:17, 30).

The Doctrine of Adoption

Redemption makes a man a child of God; adoption makes him a son of God and gives him the rights of sonship. Every child is a son; but not every child recognizes, realizes, or walks in his sonship. The Christian needs to be taught what adoption has obtained so he can live like a son and not just a child.

The word "adoption" is not the best translation of the biblical term because God does not adopt His children in the modern sense. The term should have been translated "to place as a Son." In the Greek, Roman, and Jewish cultures, when a boy became a certain age he was "placed as a son" and given all the legal rights, powers, and authority of sonship. Paul's use of adoption referred to the legal act of God's grace by which a believer may be considered a son of God. He is a "child' by the new birth; but his adoption grants him the position of an adult son, and permits him to call the one who adopted him, "Father."

In the current concept of the term, a son by adoption is not a child by birth; but in Scripture a son of God by adoption is always first His child by birth--the new birth. A parent never adopts his own children, but God never adopts any other. Being a son of God is the Christian's legal relationship to God, affording him his inheritance, position, authority, rights, and power over the enemy. See Romans 8:14-18; Ephesians 1:3-5; Galatians 4:1-6.

The Doctrine of Eternal Security

Another study in the area of redemption is the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer. Reformation theologians (Calvinists) called it the doctrine of perseverance. Actually, it could be better thought of as the doctrine of preservation and perseverance. From God's side, it is preservation; from man' side it is perseverance. If one is absent, they are both absent. God clearly promises to preserve His sheep (Psalm 121), but He also admonishes them to make sure they persevere (Hebrews 10:23).

Can a saved person ever be lost? There are different views. 1) The Roman Catholics say salvation may be forfeited by a mortal sin, such as murder and blasphemy. 2) The Calvinists say that a saved person will persevere to the end and not be lost. 3) The Pentecostals believe any saved person may be lost by sin. 4) The Methodists teach that a person may be lost by sin or apostasy. 5) The biblical view shows that the elect will persevere because God will preserve them.

There is a distinction between a mere believer, one who has simply embraced Christianity as his religion, and an elect believer. There are people who make professions and endure for a time, as illustrated in the Parable of the Sower. Some received the Word and acted on it, but did not endure (Matthew 13). Jesus said "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he [the Father] taketh away" (John 15:2). He said they were in Him. Paul said in I Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons." Notice that they were in "the faith." But there are some who profess the Christian faith who do not endure to the end. See II Timothy 2:20-22, Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-31.
The Scriptures show there is an elect group who will endure: a remnant according to the election of grace (Romans 11:5). Paul said in Romans 11:7, "The election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." According to I Peter 1:2-5 the elect will be preserved. He spoke of those "who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (verse 5). Jesus said the days of the great tribulation would be shortened for the elect's sake (Matthew 24:22). Paul said, "I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." (II Timothy 2:10).

The elect will persevere because they are preserved by God. "To them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ" (Jude 1). The Christian has been predestinated and "sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30; 1:5). Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:27-29). The elect will not fall away or be lost (John 6:39; 17:2; Romans 8:29-30; I Corinthians 1:7-9; Philippians 1:6; I Thessalonians 5:23-24; II Thessalonians 3:3; Hebrews 6:9; I Peter 1:2-5).

Why do the Scriptures warn against the dangers of sin if the elect will be saved anyway? The admonition and warnings are the means by which god secures the true believer's perseverance. "Wherefore the rather, brethern, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall" (II Peter 1:10). Jesus said in Revelation 3:11, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." Paul told the Philippians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Philippians 2:12. Even the Apostle Paul said, "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" (I Corinthians 9:27).

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 2/26/2002 6:06 AM (GMT -6)

five,
got any thoughts of your own?
June

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