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graygirl
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78

Posted 1/24/2003 2:50 AM (GMT -6)

I didn't know how to title this discussion. I'm not sure how to articulate it...but it is something i've been wrestling with my mind for sometime and would really be interested in hearing thoughts from you all.

In marriage, how are the loyalties of the heart divided between God and spouse? i know ultimatley all loyalties should go to God and then the spouse, but even in my experience with my boyfried there are times when one relationship eclipses the other. I feel torn at times, even though again the order should go God first, then boyfriend/spouse.

does my question make any sense?

weird topic i know. any thoughts out there?

GG

a_theist
"Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286

Posted 1/24/2003 2:57 AM (GMT -6)

It's the ultimate paradox!

quote:
order should go God first, then boyfriend/spouse.

shouldn't it be your spouse first and, then if you have time, your boyfriend?

"The Creator's power (by which I mean the capacity to influence the world) is made manifest paradoxically in the vulnerable defenselessness of crucified man."
-John F. Haught

Edited by - A_Theist on 01/24/2003 08:00:37 AM

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 1/24/2003 3:11 AM (GMT -6)

Perhaps, Graygirl, it isn't an issue of dividing your loyalites between God and husband (boyfriend in this case); for to divide anything that is Gods--render to Caeser what is Caeser's and to God what is God's--is to already be in trouble!

Rather, you need to define your loyaties, know what they are and who's is who's. Now, when those loyalties are properly deliniated, you task then is to insure that you fulfil each; not divide each.

Case in point: you have not taken time to before God in daily devotion as you both normally do and need to do (assuming now that this is what God has called you to daily do). The opportunity comes to take some time and get away with God, but you have given in to spending this moment of free time with your boyfriend rather than God, even knowing that you will have plenty of time later to spend with him--you're going to the movies later! You've not rendered to God what is God's.

See, ours (all our battles of loyalty to God) is generally not one of trying to decide what's God and what's not God's, but more so to be faithful to do that which we know to do for God and give that which we know to give to God. This really is the heart of the struggle. Worse is when an individual has yet to determine the small, quite voice inside them (and even the loud, clear voice) of God in matters of understanding what is and isn't God's. Then confusion compounds the stress.

Seek to know what God wants of you, what is required of you, in your walk with Him, to be faithful in all that is His.

Hope this helps,

Starkman

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 1/24/2003 3:21 AM (GMT -6)

I've heard it put like this...

Picture a triangle (gotta have threes) , God at the top, you at the bottom left, and your boyfriend/spouse bottom right. As you each move towards God you find that you come closer to each other.

Basically it's never a choice between God or the boyfriend/spouse, you both must put God first in your relationship.

peace and love, don

---
"No Rules, just Right" Outback Steakhouse

fyodor
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179

Posted 1/24/2003 3:24 AM (GMT -6)

I think it makes sense graygirl, and it's not a weird topic.

Before getting married it seemed everyone had some sort of advice for us about our relationship. Some of it was good, some was just plain horrible. Eventually, the summation of the best advice brought us to two conclusions .

1) Our personal relationship with God is indeed the most important relationship to abide in.

2) Our human relationships should be an extension of the personal relationship with God.

Human relationships that are based, and founded in the love that God has for us, will, at their core, be relationships that are loyal to God because they will be based on unconditional love, honesty, truth, forgiveness, and intimacy. Their isn't a division of loyalty. Our foremost loyalty is to God who calls us to intimacy with others. If both partners in a relationship are loyal to their relationship in Christ, then the relationship between them can flourish as they love each other the way that God loves us.

There's just a whole lotta love to spread around when you know how much has been lavished on you.

My thoughts.....
Thanks for the thread graygirl.

>>>"And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth." Kahlil Gibran from THE PROPHET

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 1/24/2003 3:46 AM (GMT -6)

I like the triangle theory, it seems quite appropriate. The give and take between myself and my husband is such that the closer we are to our Lord, the closer we feel with each other. And vise versa, the more harmony between each other, the more joy and openesss we have in the Spirit. When both partners share in Christ, there is a natural give and take that transpires and the love you have for your mate simply cannot be separated from your spiritual life. I have learned that the more intimate my walk with Jesus, the more capable I am of giving and receiving love. Also, the understanding that my husband is human and will sometimes let me down is easier to accept a when I remember that Jesus, my first Bridegroom will never let me down. This enables me to grant my husband mercy and just love him and our marriage for what they are…a dear companion and a little taste of heaven on earth!

s.B.G.

p.s. kind of obvious I'm in love, huh?

SIM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 90

Posted 1/24/2003 7:20 AM (GMT -6)

GREAT WISDOM FROM EVERYONE SO FAR ON THIS THREAD!

Some thoughts on a subject I've put considerable thought in:

(1) God desires that I meet the NEEDS of my spouse/friend, not necessarily their WANTS
(This can be hard to discern sometimes)
(2) God will show me the right choice at a given time if I ask.
(3) Sometimes a choice is between what is good and what is best.
(4) Sometimes we are supposed to cause discomfort or displeasure in someone else in order to help them to grow.

This last was really hard for me, because I am SUCH a people-pleaser. But I've learned that when I am truly walking in the Spirit, God uses me to encourage others and also to give them opportunities for growth, which usually includes some measure of pain. However, I remind myself that God doesn't say, "Speak the truth", but the much harder command, "Speak the truth IN LOVE." And what a huge difference those two little words make!

My two cents worth,

SIM

"Looking for God--or Heaven--by exploring space is like reading or seeing all Shakespeare's plays in the hope that you will find Shakespeare as one of the characters..."

C. S. Lewis

graygirl
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78

Posted 1/26/2003 5:49 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks all.

A_theist - hilarious:)

Starkman said: "See, ours (all our battles of loyalty to God) is generally not one of trying to decide what's God and what's not God's, but more so to be faithful to do that which we know to do for God and give that which we know to give to God. This really is the heart of the struggle. Worse is when an individual has yet to determine the small, quite voice inside them (and even the loud, clear voice) of God in matters of understanding what is and isn't God's. Then confusion compounds the stress."

being faithful. you can say that again! being faithful with what God has given you. i know and have seen the presence of God in my life when i have been faithful with my time with him. i have seen my relationships blessed as a result as well.

i have heard the triangle theory. it all seems to clear and simple on paper! but it does makes sense. the thing that makes the most sense to me and in my dating experience has been that when my time with God suffers, my relationship with my boyfriend suffers.

GG

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 1/26/2003 1:18 PM (GMT -6)

the thing that makes the most sense to me and in my dating experience has been that when my time with God suffers, my relationship with my boyfriend suffers.

Ain't it the truth!
And even if things don't go well with your boyfriend, when you're obey God and spending time with Him, at least your safe; having done what you're supposed to!

Starkman

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 1/27/2003 3:53 AM (GMT -6)

Wait, I didn't divide my life up into small enough pieces.

One part for God,
one part for my spouse,
one part for the kid's,
1/2 part for the dog ( if I had one ) ,
one part for take out the trash ,
one part for reading junk mail,
one part for cutting the grass,
one part for talking about Jesus,
one part for ( fill in blank ) .

peace and love, don

---
"No Rules, just Right" Outback Steakhouse

Modes of Thought
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 1/27/2003 9:11 AM (GMT -6)

I like Kierkegaard (big surprise!) on this. To love another person, regardless of who it is, is ALWAYS defined in the same way: to help them love God more.

Christian love is not preferential (we are to love our enemies remember). Of course, friendships, families, etc., these are all premised on a high degree of preference and the expression of that preference. This by no means implies that we love our spouses or families less because we are required to love our neighbor (that is, everyone). It simply disallows us to prefer one person to another on the basis of our relationships when, in fact, we are to help ALL others love God more.

It is very important to note that this distinction becomes most necessary when there is a clear point of conflict between what is good in terms of, say, a marraige, and what is good in terms of obeying God. This does not happen very often at all. But if it should occur, loyalty is clearly to God first. That very act would then be, potentially, a witness to how to love God first, which is, after all, the definition of loving the neighbor.

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

Modes of Thought
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 1/28/2003 9:15 AM (GMT -6)

Hey!
I certainly didn't intend to end the conversation. Any one have further thoughts on this?

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 1/28/2003 2:06 PM (GMT -6)

Modes...

You MUDERER, you!

Really, though, I think we've seen this thread solved: graygirl's going to go promo the single thing by becoming a nun, buying a marriage ring (to the Lord) about the size of the superbowl ones (wasn't that "Superbowl" about as lack-luster of 'super' as it gets! And I don't even watch sports!), and do Gregorian chants from here until eternity!

Seeeeeloooo baaaaaa oh saaaaaaan, daaaala booooooo (I never did get the chants quite right!)

Starkman

graygirl
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78

Posted 1/29/2003 7:14 AM (GMT -6)

starkman you are so cute! ha ha...me a nun.....whoooo!

modes: you didn't kill anything. I like your thoughts. ....like you said if one actually had to make the dramatic choice:God would have to be first.

i know Christian love isn't suppose to be preferential but our human love is. i certainly will preferentially love my family or husband before the nameless masses.....you know?

is there enough love to go around for all? anybody experienced that before?

GG

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