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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 2/23/2003 9:09 PM (GMT -6) |   | If we concede to homosexuality as permissable, what other things we view as sin could we view as permissable?
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne | | Back to Top | | |
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 2/23/2003 11:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Paul had introduced the idea that where sin abounded, grace abounded much more (Romans 5:20); he now wonders if someone might take what he is saying to imply that it doesn't matter if a Christian lives a life of sin; God's grace will overcome it anyway with greater grace.
The idea is expressed in the statement, "I love to sin, and God loves to forgive - what a perfect arrangement!"
The Russian monk Gregory Rasputin taught and lived the idea of salvation through repeated experiences of sin and repentance. He believed that, as those who sin most require most forgiveness, a sinner who continues to sin with abandon enjoys more of God's grace (when he repents for the moment) than the ordinary sinner. Therefore, Rasputin lived a life of notorious sin, and taught that this was the way to salvation - an extreme example of the Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound idea.
Because of unbelief, self-reliance or ignorance, many Christians never live in the freedom Christ paid for on the cross.
D. L. Moody used to speak of an old black woman in the South following the Civil War. Being a former slave, she was confused about her status and asked: "Now is I free, or been I not? When I go to my old master he says I ain't free, and when I go to my own people they say I is, and I don't know whether I'm free or not. Some people told me that Abraham Lincoln signed a proclamation, but master says he didn't; he didn't have any right to."
That is exactly the place many Christians are. They are, and have been, legally set free from their slavery to sin, yet they are unsure of that truth. God has made us "safe" for grace by changing us as we receive God's grace; He sets us free and equips us to live righteously before Him. How to walk in this freedom is a critical issue, we must avoid being enslaved by our own actions and desires once Christ has set us free.
In the fourteenth century two brothers fought for the right to rule over a dukedom in what is now Belgium. The elder brother's name was Raynald, but he was commonly called "Crassus," a Latin nickname meaning "fat," for he was horribly obese. After a heated battle, Raynald's younger brother Edward led a successful revolt against him and assumed the title of Duke over his lands. But instead of killing Raynald, Edward devised a curious imprisonment. He had a room in the castle built around "Crassus," a room with only one door. The door was not locked, the windows were not barred, and Edward promised Raynald that he could regain his land and his title any time that he wanted to. All he would have to do is leave the room of his imprisonment. The obstacle to freedom was not in the doors or the windows, but with Raynald himself. Being grossly overweight, he could not fit through the door, even though it was of near-normal size. All Raynald needed to do was diet down to a smaller size, then walk out a free man, with all he had before his fall. However, his younger brother kept sending him an assortment of tasty foods, and Raynald's desire to be free never won out over his desire to eat. Some would accuse Duke Edward of being cruel to his older brother, but he would simply reply "My brother is not a prisoner. He may leave when he so wills." But Raynald stayed in that room for ten years, until Edward himself was killed in battle.
What an accurate picture showing the experience of many Christians! Christ has set them forever free legally, and they may walk in that freedom from sin whenever they choose. But since they keep yielding their bodily appetites to the service of sin, they live a life of defeat, discouragement and imprisonment.
‘Made Safe for Grace’ Study Guide for Romans Chapter 6 http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1833
God is Love,
Tim
1Jo 2:16…the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father… | | Back to Top | | |
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S.B.G.
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143
| Posted 2/24/2003 6:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Tim,
Well put explanations and examples...quite fascinating, really. Am I understanding you correctly, are you are saying that homosexuals are free to do as they chose--they can be saved and heaven bound, but their choice itself imprisons them from true joy?
S.B.G.
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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 2/24/2003 6:59 AM (GMT -6) | | Dude, I just got that. I read it yesterday, but it makes sense today.
Thanks a lot,
Paul
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne | | Back to Top | | |
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 2/24/2003 2:05 PM (GMT -6) | | S.B.G.: Am I understanding you correctly…No.
"To treat being under grace as an excuse for sinning is a sign that one is not really under grace at all." - Bruce
We should not continue in habitual sin so that grace may abound!
When a person is saved, their sins are forgiven and when God's grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man is dead, and the new man lives. It is utterly incompatible for a new creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can only be temporary for the Christian.
John puts it forcefully: Whoever abides in Him does not (habitually) sin. Whoever (habitually) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him . . . Whoever has been born of God does not (habitually) sin, for his seed remains in him; and he cannot (habitually) sin, because he has been born of God (1 John 3:6,9)
"The grace that does not change my life will not save my soul" - Spurgeon
The changes may not come all at one time, and they may not come to each area of the life at the same time, but they will be there and they will be real and they will be increasing as time goes on.
Read this article to get the full story…that was just a teaser. http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1833
God is Love,
Tim
1Jo 2:16…the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father… | | Back to Top | | |
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S.B.G.
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143
| Posted 2/25/2003 3:41 AM (GMT -6) | | I agree wholeheartedly Tim, that is why I wanted to be sure I wasn't misunderstanding you.
It is wonderful how the Spirit actually takes away certain temptations from us. When our eyes are open to the uglinesss of our sins, we sometimes look back and say "How did I ever DO that?"
You are very articulate and pass on some profound insights, quotes and stories...I like. 
S.B.G.
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