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Terry_Baxter
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   Posted 5/10/2003 6:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ever since I read this a few weeks back, I've been thinking about it. Some days I agree with it more than others. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear it. You can help me clarify what I think about this.

One comment: I agree with the idea that "we really can't change anything" (else what's prayer for? the number one argument for Open Theism...).

Begin Quote:
*****

BB: Speaking of God and your relationship with Him, there any other
things that you enjoy writing about? There are certain times, certain periods of your life,in your relationship with Him that you like to put forth into your music?

RM: Well, I think, it's not a part of it that I particularly enjoy. A
part that I find particularly spiritually vital is the emptiness of life, the utter futility of it. You know, I think a lot of people think it's morose when you sort of finally embrace that.

But I kinda go, once you come to understand that life is unbelievably
brief, and that we really can't do anything that's gonna change anything. That we're sort of, that we don't really amount to a hill of beans. Then all of a sudden, you go, "So it doesn't really matter if I'm not great. And if I don't have to be great, that means I can fail. And if I can fail, that means I can try. And if I can try, that means I'm gonna have a good time." You know what I mean?

Source: The June 27, 1996 Message to the Media at Creation Fest --
www.kidbrothers.net/words/interviews/creation-festival-jun2796-1.html.




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Matthew Timothy Short
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   Posted 5/11/2003 2:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Terry_,

…The emptiness of life, the utter futility of it. Life is not empty and futile!

…Can't do anything that's gonna change anything. I can do things, which will transform lives!

…Don't really amount to a hill of beans. I truly amount to more than a hill of beans!

"So it doesn't really matter… Everything matters!
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One Love
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   Posted 5/11/2003 3:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is good stuff.

Being honest, I like where this person's intuitions are going. As I see it, when this person is talking about the "futility of life", she is obviously not speaking of any type of nihilistic perspective. What I believe she is truly focusing on is the relative insignficance of our brief lives in the context of all existence in general and human history in particular. She is realizing that reality is NOT centered around any one person including her. Creation is not going to disintegrate based upon her decisions. And this gives her some sense of psychologi al air to make mistakes. Listen to what she says (emphases mine)...

quote:
Then all of a sudden, you go, "So it doesn't really matter if I'm not great. And if I don't have to be great, that means I can fail. And if I can fail, that means I can try. And if I can try, that means I'm gonna have a good time." You know what I mean?


What we have to understand is that, for some people, the mistaken sense of one's inflated self-importance can lead to a type of paralysis in decision making or action taking. Some people think that ONE LITTLE MISTAKE that they make is either somehow going to cause some type of global disaster or make them look like complete failures. And what do they often end up doing? Not making any real decisions of consequence at all, for fear. Ah, but when this type of person realizes that their significance is NOT that high, now they realize that they have the ROOM to make mistakes. And that gives them the impetus to TRY without feeling that the world is at stake with every choice. Notice that if they person were truly some type of nihilist, the whole idea of "trying" would be kind of stupid. This person's melioristic link of "try" and "fail" presupposes that this person DOES believe that they CAN impact things. She is just not exploding this power to influence to insanely high levels.

I think the whole "emptiness of life" and "futility of life" ideas make her ideas more grim sounding then they really are. Basically, she is recognizing and acknowledging the serious FINITUDE of her existence in many dimensions in the face of Creation as a whole, and the psychological freedom that this grants her to do things. I think this is tight.

My two cents,



"Smile. It could be worse." --from a good friend.
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Matthew Timothy Short
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   Posted 5/11/2003 3:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I am glad you honed in on that , MephEternal . . .
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Terry_Baxter
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   Posted 5/11/2003 8:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Meph,

Thanks for the response. Your thoughts echoed my own.

I forgot to mention that the RM is Rich Mullins (author of Awesome God and other songs).

  • Taking prayer and evangelism seriously (and, writ small, the CV view of theodicy) can lead to the syndrome you described. I call it the Hamlet syndrome--paralysis of action due to thinking too much.


  • Because I'm not a full fledged adherent to OT, I'm prone to have a "bigger God" than the CV view generally allows. I do trust God to do His will and work out amazing things despite my failures, inaction, lack of love and lack of prayer.


  • This view takes the wisdom literature seriously, especially Ecclesiates, but also half the Psalms that are whining and somewhat fatalistic about who we are in ourselves. I prefer not to throw out 100 pages from my Bible because it doesn't match the tenets of the Self Esteem culture.


  • Every time I lead a Sunday School class, I'm a bit nervous. I know that the Bible says teachers are held particularly accountable for their words and what they teach. People attend my classes because we honestly and humbly tackle the gray areas (and aren't there an awful lot of gray areas?) rather than the Essentials of the Faith. In such a setting, my words have the potential to lead someone closer to or farther away from a Godly life. I have to trust God to keep my students from living out any errors I teach.


Also, I was blessed by Alan's response to a completely unrelated thread. He said that he wasn't worried about the academic job market being bad because he trusted in God's provision. I should have learned that lesson by now. Even though the future may not be completely settled, God's arm is not short and He can take care of me.

Last comment: What would we be doing lately if the brevity of our lives on this planet were a fairly common thought. What might we be willing to do (or not do?)

Terry

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Terry_Baxter
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   Posted 5/11/2003 1:31 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forgot to add the reply that I agree in the substance of Tim's post.

The love of God is amazing. The worth God ascribes to us is astounding, and far beyond what we "deserve".

The temptation from this side is to become lackadaisical about sin. We tend to think of God as a friend or a lover, which denudes God of his glory and holiness.

So, thanks Tim. I do see that side. I just don't think my importance to the universe is as quite as black and white, up-with-people-ish, "I'm the best me I can be" as we're sometimes led to believe.

Terry

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DLW
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   Posted 5/11/2003 3:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't find the quote that inspiring.

Yes, an existential belief that our choices will make a difference can provide paralyzing angst, but I don't think taking an ersatz Calvinists view that ultimately our choices won't matter is not comforting.

Dostoesky once said, "A Christian cannot be a radical." I think what this gets at is "who moves history?"

My studies of history have led me to disavow a teleological viewpoint. Too much of what has happened has failed so much.

If its not our fault then whose fault is it? Those demonic principalities? Unacceptable, they have already been defeated at the Cross and with the resurrection.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.
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Matthew Timothy Short
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   Posted 5/11/2003 4:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
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