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geej
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 93
 
   Posted 8/23/2002 3:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just a quick question. The topic of the notion of love and being non-judgemental has been quite commonplace lately. Coming from a fundamentalist background, one thing I have great difficulty with is differentiating love/acceptance from pluralsim. (define please) And, while we're at it, when does one confront heresies etc...or does one do that?
GJ

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 8/23/2002 4:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey geej: What is Freedom? I bet that this question is connected--down under the soil where the roots are--with your question above.

Here's what's in the back of my mind when I set about wondering that:

quote:
...no one, so far as nature is concerned, can escape Christ's kingly rule, or alienate himself from the invincible power of the resurrection. But the will of man cannot be cured in the same invincible manner. The will of man must turn itself to God. There must be a free and spontaneous response of love and adoration, a "free conversion." The will of man can be cured only in the "mystery of freedom." Only by this free effort does man enter into that new and eternal life which is revealed in Christ Jesus.

A spiritual regeneration can be wrought only in perfect freedom, in an obedience of love, by a self-consecration and self-dedication to God, in Christ. This distinction was made with great insistence by Nicolas Cabasilas in his remarkable treatise on The Life in Christ. Resurrection is a "rectification of nature" (he anastasis physeos estin epanorthosis) and this God grants freely. But the Kingdom of Heaven, and the beatific vision, and union with Christ, presuppose the desire (trophe estin tes theleseos), and therefore are available only for those who have longed for them, and loved, and desired. And immortality will be given to all, just as all can enjoy Divine providence. It does not depend upon our will whether we shall rise after death or not, just as it is not by our will that we are born. The death and resurrection of Christ bring immortality and incorruption to all in the same manner, because all have the same nature as the Man Christ Jesus. But nobody can be compelled to desire. Thus Resurrection is a gift common to all, but the blessedness will be given only to some (De vita in Christo 2.86-96).
(Georges Florovsky)




When is a person truly free? Is it when they can do anything that they want? Or is it when they are uniting themselves to Christ, and Christ is uniting Himself by the Spirit to them?

I assume that this confrontation of heresies you write about is with regards to helping that person -- Right? Otherwise it is just to protect the those 'in the flock.'

Early Church Fathers disagreed about the conversion or not conversion of those who stray. But they agree that the resurrection of Christ, of Christ's human body bought life for mankind. What concerned them very much is the WHAT KIND of that life: Freedom in Christ or Slavery to Self. Like Bob Dylan said in the 80's, "You're gonna have to serve somebody." (from Slow Train Com'n)

Serving God can ONLY be done in freedom out of Love. So I'd cast the LOVE issue in the framework of Freedom. Love 'casts out fear' and makes fear. (Even in the face of death.)

The issue you speak of is not one of groups, or social morality. The issue you are thinking about is one of particular persons. And it pertains to them not just as individuals but more truly as they are "persons" -- which means is particular persons within the human community and God's creation. It pertains to them as God's creatures.


So, what's at stake here?



Edited by - Al2Si2H4O9 on 08/23/2002 9:19:34 PM
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 8/24/2002 6:43 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My post above might be summarized as "giv'em what's good for'em." IT BEGS FOR BALANCE. (Dont' you think?)

Here is some weighty "balance."


ST. ISAAC THE SYRIAN



    He who sighs over his soul for one hour is greater than he who benefits the whole world by his contemplation.

    He who is accounted worthy to see himself is greater than he who is accounted worthy to see angels.

    Love sinners, and do not despise them for their faults. Remember that you partake in an earthly nature, and do good to all. Let your manner be always courteous and respectful to all. For love does not know how to be angry or lose its temper or to find fault with anyone out of passion.

    Do not reprove anyone for any transgression, but in all things consider yourself responsible and the cause of the sin.

    Avoid laying down the law, as you would flee from an untamed lion. Do not join in this with the children of the Church, nor with outsiders.

    Shun impudence in speech as you would death; and beware of idle talk, but speak only what is necessary; and content yourself with Row clothing for the needs of the body. Partake of everything in small quantities, and do not despise some things while choosing others and desiring to fill your belly with them. For discretion is the greatest of all the virtues.

    Be subject to all in every good work, except to those who love possessions or money.

    Do not resist anyone on any matter; do not fight, do not lie, do not swear. Be despised, and do not despise. Be wronged, and do not do wrong. It is better to endure the destruction of bodily things together with the body itself, than to suffer harm in anything that concerns the soul.

    When you approach God in prayer, become in your thoughts as an ant, as the 'creeping things on the earth or as a lisping child. And do not speak anything in knowledge before God, but draw near to Him with the mind of an infant, that you may be accounted worthy of His fatherly providence. For it has been said, The Lord preserveth infants."


    (From page 272 of Christos Yannaras' THE FREEDOM OF MORALITY )



Weighty, eh?



Edited by - Al2Si2H4O9 on 08/24/2002 11:50:28 AM
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