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|  0CT0R0K Registered Member
 Date Joined Dec 2002 Total Posts : 50 | Posted 3/18/2003 7:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | so talking to my friend paul, "a_theist", he brought up the discussion of heaven and hell and the 'imortal soul'. from what i read, it seems that when you die, you don't go directly to heaven or hell, you stay in a state of unconsciousness until Jesus comes back? or something like that ... im not very good with reading comprehension, and besides that it's late at night and im tired.
if anybody could give the webpage a look over and tell me what they think, i would greatly appreciate it.
www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/bk23/index.html
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 |  0CT0R0K Registered Member
 Date Joined Dec 2002 Total Posts : 50 | Posted 3/19/2003 4:21 PM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  Matthew Timothy Short Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002 Total Posts : 635 | Posted 3/20/2003 1:33 AM (GMT -6) |   | Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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 |  Laika Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003 Total Posts : 2433 | Posted 3/20/2003 3:01 AM (GMT -6) |   | [One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at Him: “Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don't you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”]
doesn't sound like much of a wait
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 |  a_theist "Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002 Total Posts : 286 | Posted 3/20/2003 12:57 PM (GMT -6) |   | Actually, I've heard it stated that could be worded, "I tell you this day, you will be with me in paradise." Which still assumes much of a wait.
Thanks, Paul
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects." ~Charles Hartshorne | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Laika Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003 Total Posts : 2433 | Posted 3/21/2003 2:38 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Actually, I've heard it stated that could be worded, "I tell you this day, you will be with me in paradise." Which still assumes much of a wait.
Actually
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise" shows no waiting
"I tell you this day, you will be with me in paradise" shows neither a long wait nor a short wait
mata ato de
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 |  a_theist "Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002 Total Posts : 286 | Posted 3/21/2003 1:45 PM (GMT -6) |   | Actually
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise" shows no waiting
"I tell you this day, you will be with me in paradise" shows neither a long wait nor a short wait
What is your point? Either way, if it is a long wait or a short wait--as if somehow a being can measure time when they are dead--it would actually have to be relative to God on how long of a wait it really was. The bible talks about a physical resurrection of the dead, so whatever this verse is saying to you, it is contrary to the belief that no one has ascened to heaven accept the son of man, and that there will be a resurrection of the dead--the just and unjust.
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects." ~Charles Hartshorne
Edited by - A_Theist on 03/21/2003 6:47:04 PM | | Back to Top | | |
 |  0CT0R0K Registered Member
 Date Joined Dec 2002 Total Posts : 50 | Posted 3/23/2003 7:29 PM (GMT -6) |   | interesting verses Tim. i wish someone could elaborate a little more for me on the entire process of death, all the resurrections, and the "after-life". even a website would be appreciated.
thanks, derek
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 |  Matthew Timothy Short Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002 Total Posts : 635 | Posted 3/24/2003 12:13 AM (GMT -6) |   | Hey there 0CT0R0K,
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest that you start, by reading what the Bible has to say directly on the subjects that you have mentioned, before reading what others have to say on them.
HELL
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/choice/1048503150-2343.html
HEAVEN
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/choice/1048503763-569.html
RESURRECTION
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/choice/1048503939-8868.html
DEATH
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/choice/1048504056-5636.html
God is Love,
Tim
2Ti 2:19…Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity... | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Matthew Timothy Short Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002 Total Posts : 635 | Posted 3/24/2003 12:58 AM (GMT -6) |   | RESURRECTION from the Old Testament
Job 14:12-15So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 19:25-27For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth: And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me.
Psa 16:9,10Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psa 17:15As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
Psa 49:15But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Isa 25:8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it].
Isa 26:19Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Eze 37:1-14The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which [was] full of bones, And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, [there were] very many in the open valley; and, lo, [they were] very dry.
And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD. So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but [there was] no breath in them.
Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
Dan 12:2,3And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:13But go thou thy way till the end [be]: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Hsa 13:14I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
God is Love,
Tim
2Ti 2:19…Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity... | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Matthew Timothy Short Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002 Total Posts : 635 | Posted 3/24/2003 1:50 AM (GMT -6) |   | RESURRECTION from the Gospels
Mat 22:23-32The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mat 24:31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 25:1-13Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish. They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mat 27:52,53And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his (Jesus’) resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Luk 14:14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Jhn 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Jhn 5:25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jhn 5:28,29Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 6:39,40And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 11:23-25Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 14:19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
God is Love,
Tim
2Ti 2:19…Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity... | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Laika Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003 Total Posts : 2433 | Posted 3/24/2003 1:56 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
What is your point? Either way, if it is a long wait or a short wait--as if somehow a being can measure time when they are dead--it would actually have to be relative to God on how long of a wait it really was. The bible talks about a physical resurrection of the dead, so whatever this verse is saying to you, it is contrary to the belief that no one has ascened to heaven accept the son of man, and that there will be a resurrection of the dead--the just and unjust.
So where did Enoch and Elijah go?
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 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 3/24/2003 3:39 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote: 0CT0R0K: ...from what i read, it seems that when you die, you don't go directly to heaven or hell, you stay in a state of unconsciousness until Jesus comes back? or something like that ... im not very good with reading comprehension, and besides that it's late at night and im tired.
You were "tired," and the topic was "eternal rest." Funny! But pointed.
Here's an answer for you:
GOD DOES NOT WEAR A WATCH.
Think instead of the kingdom as coming in degrees. Yet not diluded either. Like a pot centered on a wheel, centeredness is not a matter of how big the ball of clay is. And the clay being small at the moment does not imply that the clay is impure. Likewise, I really don't think that God's grace, God's presence can be diluded or mixed, etc. Neither is ther anything inbetween God's presence or not.
The one distinction has to be made that God is everpresent. But the presence of His Grace and our participation in it is another matter.
It is noteworthy that an early version of the Lord's Prayer said: "Thy Holy Spirit come, on earth as it is in heaven." (Notice that the Holy Spirit's presence is equated with the presence of the Kingdom!)
That said, may I look at something you said, 0CT0R0K? "...you stay in a state of unconsciousness until Jesus comes back..." BUT, where can you go that is away from the Lord?
Psalm 139
7 Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, And thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall overwhelm me, And the light about me shall be night; 12 Even the darkness hideth not from thee, But the night shineth as the day: The darkness and the light are both alike [to thee].
And then there is the case of the theif.
Who says that "time" is the same for those who are freed from the corrupting, rotting onslaught of sin?
But who knows.
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 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 3/24/2003 3:48 AM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 3/24/2003 3:51 AM (GMT -6) |   | Does this fit our thinking?
(from the above article)
quote: Some Protestants consider death not as a punishment but as something natural. But. is not God the creator of all natural things? So in both cases, God — for them — is the real cause of death.
And this is true not only for the death of the body. It is equally true for the death of the soul. Do not Western theologians consider hell, the eternal spiritual death of man, as a punishment from God? And do they not consider the devil as a minister of God for the eternal punishment of men in hell?
Notice that the author asks: is not God the creator of all natural things? | | Back to Top | | |
 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 3/24/2003 3:56 AM (GMT -6) |   | Another thought presented:
quote: All these punishments operate and have their purpose in this corrupted state of things; they do not extend beyond this corrupted life. Their purpose is to correct what can be corrected, and to change things toward a better condition, while things can still change in this changing world. After the Common Resurrection no change whatever can take place. Eternity and incorruptibility are the state of unchangeable things; no alterations whatever happen then, only developments in the state chosen by free personalities; eternal and infinite developments but no changing, no alteration of direction, no going back. The changing world we see around us is changing because it is corruptible. The eternal New Heavens and New Earth which God will bring about in His Second Coming are incorruptible, that means, not changing. So in this New World there can be no correction whatever; therefore, pedagogical punishments are no longer necessary. Any punishment from God in this New World of Resurrection would be clearly and without a doubt a revengeful act, inappropriate and motivated by hate, without any good intention or purpose.
And this quoted:
quote: As Saint Isaac the Syrian says: "He who applies pedagogical punishments in order to give health, is punishing with love, but he who is looking for vengeance, is devoid of love. God punishes with love, not defending Himself — far be it — but He wants to heal His image, and He does not keep His wrath for long. This way of love is the way of uprightness, and it does not change with passion to a defense. A man who is just and wise is like God because he never chastises a man in revenge for wickedness, but only in order to correct him or that others be afraid" (Homily 73).
So we see that God punishes as long as there is hope for correction. After the Common Resurrection there is no question of any punishment from God. Hell is not a punishment from God but a self condemnation. As Saint Basil the Great says, "The evils in hell do not have God as their cause, but ourselves." 40
39 "Famines and droughts and floods are common plagues of cities and nations which check the excess of evil. Therefore, just as the physician is a benefactor even if he should cause pain or suffering to the body (for he strives with the disease, and not with the sufferer), so in the same manner God is good Who administers salvation to everyone through the means of particular chastisements. But you, not only do you not speak evilly of the physician who cuts some members, cauterizes others, and excises others again completely from the body, but you even give him money and address him as savior because he confines the disease to a small area before the infirmity can claim the whole body. However, when you see a city crushing its inhabitants in an earthquake, or a ship going down at sea with all hands, you do not shrink from wagging a blasphemous tongue against the true Physician and Savior." St. Basil the Great, op. cit. 7, 94. "And you may accept the phrase 'I kill and I will make to live' (Deut. 32:39) literally, if you wish, since fear edifies the more simple. 'I will smite and I will heal' (Deut. 32:39). It is profitable to also understand this phrase literally; for the smiting engenders fear, while the healing incites to love. It is permitted you, nonetheless, to attain to a loftier understanding of the utterance. I will slay through sin and make to live through righteousness. 'But though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day' (II Cor. 4:16). Therefore, He does not slay one, and give life to another, but through the means which He slays, He gives life to a man, and He heals a man with that which He smites him, according to the proverb which says, 'For thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from death' (Prov. 23:14). So the flesh is chastised for the soul to be healed, and sin is put to death for righteousness to live.... When you hear 'There shall be no evil in a city which the Lord hath not wrought' (cf. Amos 3:6), understand by the noun 'evil' that the word intimates the tribulation brought upon sinners for the correction of offenses. For Scripture says, 'For I afflicted thee and straitened thee, to do good to thee' (cf. Deut. 8:3); so too is evil terminated before it spills out unhindered, as a strong dike or wall holds back a river.
"For these reasons, diseases of cities and nations, droughts, barrenness of the earth, and the more difficult conditions in the life of each, cut off the increase of wickedness. Thus, such evils come from God so as to uproot the true evils, for the tribulations of the body and all painful things from without have been devised for the restraining of sin. God, therefore, excises evil; never is evil from God.... The razing of cities, earthquakes and floods, the destruction of armies, shipwrecks and all catastrophes with many casualties which occur from earth or sea or air or fire or whatever cause, happen for the sobering of the survivors, because God chastises public evil with general scourges.
"The principal evil, therefore, which is sin, and which is especially worthy of the appellation of evil, depends upon our disposition; it depends upon us either to abstain from evil or to be in misery.
"Of the other evils, some are shown to be struggles for the proving of courage... while some are for the healing of sins... and some are for an example to make other men sober." St. Basil the Great, op. cit. 7, 98-102.
40 Ibid. 7, 92.
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 |  GregBoyd Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 1818 | Posted 3/24/2003 5:04 AM (GMT -6) |   | 2Cor. 5:1 ¶ For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2Cor. 5:2 For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling— 2Cor. 5:3 if indeed, when we have taken it off we will not be found naked. 2Cor. 5:4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan under our burden, because we wish not to be unclothed but to be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 2Cor. 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2Cor. 5:6 ¶ So we are always confident; even though we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord— 2Cor. 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 2Cor. 5:8 Yes, we do have confidence, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Seems to suggest some sort of disembodied intermediate existence.
Phil. 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two: my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better; Phil. 1:24 but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you.
Seems that Paul thought he would immediately be with the Lord wen he died.
That's all.
Greg
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Matthew Timothy Short Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002 Total Posts : 635 | Posted 3/25/2003 12:56 AM (GMT -6) |   | RESURRECTION from the Epistles
Act 2:26-31Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 4:1,2And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Act 17:18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:32And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this [matter].
Act 23:6,8But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men [and] brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question…For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
Act 24:14,15But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Act 24:21Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.
Act 26:6-8And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Rom 4:16-21Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 8:10,11And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:19, 21-23For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God…Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
1Cr 6:14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
1Cr 15:12-57Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame. But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.
So also [is] the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Cr 4:14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present [us] with you.
2Cr 5:1-5For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Phl 3:10,11That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phl 3:21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
2Ti 1:10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 2:18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Hbr 6:2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hbr 11:19Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] (Isaac) up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Hbr 11:35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Rev 1:18I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 20:4-6And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
God is Love,
Tim
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