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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 1/20/2003 10:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | I posted on my live journal a while back a cool quote that I read in Jesus Under Siege on the Gospel of Thomas:
"...the Gospel of Thomas is clearly influenced by the kind of Gnosticism we knew was prevalent in the second and third centuries, but not in the first. For example, we find the Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas saying that 'every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.' This demeaning view of women was common within Gnosticism, but utterly foreign to the historical Jesus."
Man, I always thought quotes like these were examples of how traditional Christianity could stand its grounds against religions like gnosticism. But there is always an objection, ALWAYS:
these quotes are taken from different people who use different sources on this page of live Journal:
The verse he quotes, 114, is believed by many to have been added by someone else at a later date (Pagels, Patterson, Meyer).
--vaelarin
The Gospel of Thomas has elements that predate the canonical Gospels. It also has elements that were added later, by Gnostic and other redactors, to demonstrate their views.
--sophiaserpentia
sophiaserpentia (not her real name)goes on to say...
Modifying and redacting texts was not uncommon. I suppose you are familiar with arguments regarding the Johannine Comma (I John 5:7-9) as containing an improper addition to the Biblical text?
Taken from Collected Commentary on the Gospel of Thomas:
R. McL. Wilson writes: "To quote the same authors [Grant and Freedman] yet again, 'the high point of Thomas' eschatology is thus reached, at the end of his gospel, with the obliteration of sex.' It should, however, be added that this is a point of difference among the Gnostic sects. In Valentinianism, for example, the souls of the elect enter into the Pleroma not as bridegrooms but as the brides of the angels. The basic conception is, however, the same." (Studies in the Gospel of Thomas, p. 32)
and then...
Hmm, critics who like to point to verse 114 as evidence of "mysogyny" in Gnosticism completely overlook (a) 2000 years of mysogyny in the mainstream church and (b) other Gnostic texts that depict women with dignity, as bearers of wisdom, as the bringers of life to humankind, and so on (see for example The Hypostasis of the Archons.[I should keep in mind that this is a gnostic website, so I don't know if I should accept its validity])
Finally...
I meant to post a link to the Passion of Felicity and Perpetua so you could examine it yourself. Felicity and Perpetua are canonized saints.
Sent out to die with the lions and gladiators, Perpetua claimed to become a man when she was stripped naked.
Is it wrong for me to hate gnosticism?
Any answers would be appreciative.
Peace,
Paul
"The Creator's power (by which I mean the capacity to influence the world) is made manifest paradoxically in the vulnerable defenselessness of crucified man."
-John F. Haught
Edited by - A_Theist on 01/21/2003 03:20:27 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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CalvinnHobbes
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 88
| Posted 1/21/2003 11:03 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Is it wrong for me to hate gnosticism?
Any view, true or false, has elements of truth in it. Commend the truth and reject the rest.
The Gnostics had several honorable contentions: 
1) Salvation was their overarching ultimate concern. That's Admirable.
2) This world is not our true home. True enough.
3) This world and the flesh are obstacles to the salvation of the spirit. In many ways, yes.
Now, they also held many very questionable beliefs: 
1) Pulling from different sources, they came to the conclusion that "real" reality is entirely spiritual. From this they inferred that all matter is evil, or unreal at best.
2) The original supreme being never had any intention of creating a material world. It created a number of spiritual beings ("eons), one of whom (believed by some to be the female eon Wisdom) created the world (the "abortion of the spirit") in error.
3) Since formed by this spirit, this world contains remnant "sparks" or "bits" which have become imprisoned in human bodies and must be liberated through special mystical knowledge (similar to a spiritual password).
4) A heavenly messenger must bring us this knowledge, calling us to struggle against our material incarceration and allowing us overcome the evil powers which rule the "heavenly spheres" above us and try to prevent our liberation.
5) Because Christ is our heavenly messenger, he must not have had a body like ours. Most denied his birth.
6) Some held that not all human beings have a spirit, but only those who happen to house remnant "sparks".
7) Some were extreme ascetics in their attempts to weaken the body's power over the Spirit. Others believed that since spirit is naturally good and cannot be destroyed, the body should be left to follow its own passions.
It's helpful to keep in mind that "Gnosticism" came in many forms, both within and outside the church. It wasn't some well-defined and well-structured, cohesive movement.
(reference: Justo Gonzalez' The Story of Christianity.)
Hope you find this helpful.
"The longer I live, the more I read, the more patiently I think, and the more anxiously I inquire, the less I seem to know." ~President John Adams
Edited by - CalvinnHobbes on 01/21/2003 4:05:49 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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JET
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 397
| Posted 1/21/2003 12:15 PM (GMT -6) | | Everything I know about Gnosticism I learned from the Warner Brothers website that Mephi linked in the Matrix thread.
Aren't popular culture and the internet great?
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