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Ochuk
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 102
| Posted 4/23/2003 12:26 PM (GMT -6) |   | Hello everyone. I've been a long time reader of this forum, but I haven't posted, because I neither have the time or the energy to argue and research the heavy topics that are posted.
However, I would love to have two questions answered: What is postmodernism? How is it going to affect the Church?
Thank you all for reading and answering.
Read my blog at ochuk.gizzar.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Alan Rhoda
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 680
| Posted 4/23/2003 2:04 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 4/24/2003 3:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Greetings Ochuk!
Two really good books to get on this are Stanley Grenz's "A Primer on Postmodernism" and "The Death of Truth: What's Wrong With Multiculturalism, the Rejection of Reason and the New Postmodern Diversity" by Dennis McCallum.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556617240/qid=1051189565/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-2784791-2760913?v=glance&s=books
McCallum's book, is to me, the primer BEFORE the primer. By that, I mean that his book is the primer before Grenz's book, "A Primer..." and therefore would probably be easier one to wade through first. Then there is also the book mentioned in the url that Alan linked to to get a gist of how it is "shaping" the church, theology, liturgy and so forth.
So, have at it and enjoy the reading! 
Brandon
"Mommy, I know now that the terms, 'I'll knock yo' teeth down yo' throat!' meant you'd love me in the special way you do everyday of my life."--Darwin Hobbs
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rossfadeinout
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 428
| Posted 4/24/2003 4:20 AM (GMT -6) | | I just went back and read the link that Alan made- it has a very good discussion of postmodernism, and it leads into some on epistemology. I might have to ask about some of the comments that were made there when I have more time.
Ross
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. - C.S. Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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Ochuk
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 102
| Posted 4/24/2003 5:26 AM (GMT -6) | | BBBCanada:
I'm reading [iPrimer on Postmodernism]right now. I got his latest book Beyond Foundationalism and I didn't really get it (it's pretty deep), so it's been helping me a lot. I just wanted to see what the "big boys" here at CV thought.
I'll check out that link.
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gregw
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 4/24/2003 6:43 AM (GMT -6) | | Foundationalism vs. nonfoundationalism.
Grenz & Franke's book is interesting if imprecise in definitions.
See my MA thesis on this topic (or not). Sometime I may get around to putting it on my website.
Greg Woodard
http://www.usfamily.net/web/gv.woodard | | Back to Top | | |
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Ochuk
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 102
| Posted 4/24/2003 7:15 AM (GMT -6) | | I go to a church in Uptown called the Rock. It's mission is to reach out to people in the postmodern context. I was asked to write an essay explaining my thoughts on what postmodernism is and what the church can do about it. The above link was awesome and I'll have to check out some of the books.
I wrote the essay, but I'm still looking for somone to ctritque it. If anyone could be of help, I would email it to you, or I could just post it at my blog.
My working definition, in short is that postmodernism has a nihilistic attitude towards rational traditional values, a perspectivist epistemology, and a pluralistic ethos. It's very inclusive, communal, and critical of anything that has foundational authority, however, it is very much tied to the arts and culture.
Thanks, Adam
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 4/24/2003 7:48 AM (GMT -6) | | Ochuk,
Yes, I have "Beyond Foundationalism" as well. I really like a lot of Grenz's stuff though I wonder how far the church can go in response to postmodernism. Whereas others are pessimistic and lament "the state of affairs," Grenz, the ever so optimistic one sees opportunity.
"Beyond" is pretty hefty and it is concerned more (from what I have read so far) with apologetics and foundationalism as opposed to nonfoundationalist approaches in particular. I think it would be safe to say that Greg Boyd would be MORE nonfoundationalist in his approach from what I have read on his stuff to SeanG. A foundationalist approach would look more like the "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" approach with it's use of scientific enquiry much like Sherlock Holmes.
The problems with such an approach according to guys like Grenz is that it seeks to have 100% certainty of knowledge about any given subject. That is, for example, if one builds a case for the reliability of the Bible on "evidence" one will have to show that the evidence is "intact" FIRST before one will be able to accept that it is reliable and therefore trustworthy enough to be an authority for our lives. Though Greg on the other post modern thread that Alan linked to says there isn't anything wrong with looking at the evidence, it is just that we should not be as naive about it as well as see how the evidence gives a general "fit into our story." That is, if I'm correct in what he is saying is that sometimes the evidence like a puzzle may not fit so nice and neat into "the Christian story" (air tight?) but it does have a GENERAL fitting. This is all merely one aspect of foundationalism/nonfoundationalism debate. This reminds me. I need to ask Greg about the false dichotomy that he mentioned on that thread.
Also, Ochuk, I would say that your working definition is pretty much on target. Just one question. When you say "perspectivist epistomology" I would think that you mean "neutral?" Let me know.
Lastly, don't forget to check out, "The Younger Evangelicals" by Robert Webber I mentioned on the postmodern thread.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0801091527/qid%3D1051205145/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-5164829-5986258
Brandon
"Mommy, I know now that the terms, 'I'll knock yo' teeth down yo' throat!' meant you'd love me in the special way you do everyday of my life."--Darwin Hobbs
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Ochuk
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 102
| Posted 4/24/2003 10:06 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Just one question. When you say "perspectivist epistomology" I would think that you mean "neutral?" Let me know.
BBB
I'm not sure what you mean by "neutral?" I was going off the epistemology used by Nietzsche. The more perspectives on has, the better grasp of truth we have. There can be a moral perspective, a perspective, a scientific perspective, a poetic perspective, a man's perspective, a woman's perspective, ect. but their is no "God's eye-view." As Nietzsche would later say, "There are no facts; only interpretations."
I will definitely look into buying that book. I really am interested in this stuff. 
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 4/25/2003 11:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Ochuk,
I think I like the way YOU put it. But it seems in saying that there are "only interpretations" as you correctly quote Nietzche, then we have to be relatively neutral concerning reality. That is, there is no one grand scheme worldview (like modernism) according to postmodernism, but all views are equally valid.
Gotta fly.
Brandon
"Mommy, I know now that the terms, 'I'll knock yo' teeth down yo' throat!' meant you'd love me in the special way you do everyday of my life."--Darwin Hobbs
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Ochuk
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 102
| Posted 4/25/2003 12:05 PM (GMT -6) | | I got my long essay up on my blog. Feel free to comment away, or email be your thoughts
ochuk.gizzar.com
email omelianchuk@hotmail.com
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