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Electra
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611

Posted 9/23/2002 7:24 AM (GMT -6)

What do y’all make of this? (please see 2 questions at the end):

Gibson Passionate About Jesus Picture in Latin
Sun Sep 22, 9:07 PM ET

By David Rooney

ROME (Variety) - Mel Gibson has committed to return to the director's chair with "The Passion," starring James Caviezel in a chronicle of the final 12 hours in the life of Jesus Christ.

The directing gig will be the devout Catholic's first since winning multiple Oscars ( news - web sites) with "Braveheart" in 1995; he will also serve as a producer. Pre-production is under way, and the 10-week shoot will begin in Italy on Nov. 4.

No U.S. studio (not even Fox, where Gibson's Icon Prods. is based) has so far taken distribution rights to the spiritual drama, to be shot in Latin and Aramaic.

"Obviously, nobody wants to touch something filmed in two dead languages," Gibson explained at a news conference Friday at Rome's Cinecitta Studios. "They think I'm crazy, and maybe I am. But maybe I'm a genius.

"I want to show the film without subtitles," he added. "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend language barriers with visual storytelling. If I fail, I'll put subtitles on it, though I don't want to."

'SEBASTIANE' IN LATIN

The only modern film in memory to have been performed in Latin was the late British avant-garde helmer Derek Jarman's "Sebastiane," which was set in the fourth century.

While Gibson was reluctant to reveal a budget, he said the film will be fully financed by Icon, describing the undertaking in rudimentary Italian as "buono per l'anima, non buono per il portafoglio" (good for the soul, not good for the wallet). The project clearly represents a labor of love for Gibson.

"The idea came to me 10 years ago and has been rambling around in my empty head, very slowly taking shape ever since," Gibson said. "I think this is a pretty timeless and timely story to tell, involving an area where there's turbulence now just as there was turbulence then because history repeats itself.

"I want to show the humanity of Christ as well as the divine aspect," he continued. "It's a rendering that for me is very realistic and as close as possible to what I perceive the truth to be."

GIBSON NOT ON SCREEN

Unlike in his first two features as director, "The Man Without a Face" and "Braveheart," Gibson will limit himself to off-camera duties on the biblical drama.

Remaining cast flanking Caviezel as Christ will be Italian actors. Gibson is in advanced talks with Monica Bellucci to play Mary Magdalene. Known for her roles in European pics like "Malena" and "Irreversible," the Italian star appears positioned for English-language breakout alongside Bruce Willis in Antoine Fuqua's "Tears of the Sun" and in the Wachowski brothers' sequel "The Matrix Reloaded."

Talks are also taking place with Sergio Rubini ("The Talented Mr. Ripley") to play the good thief Dismas, while Rosalinda Celentano has signed to appear as Satan.

CONSULTED WITH VATICAN ( news - web sites)

Reports in Italy's Catholic press indicate that Gibson has consulted with high-level theologians and Vatican officials to ensure maximum authenticity in the retelling.

Ben Fitzgerald and Gibson scripted from several sources, freely adapting the diaries of Anne Catherine Emmerich, collected in the book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ," Mary of Agreda's "The City of God" and the New Testament Gospels of Luke, John, Matthew and Mark.

The screenplay was translated into Latin and Aramaic by Los Angeles-based Jesuit linguistics professor Bill Fulco, who also will serve as on-set dialogue coach.

Principal locations will be the towns of Matera and Craco in Italy's southern Basilicata region, with extensive work on constructions on the Cinecitta backlot and four soundstages.

OK, two questions:

1. Why Latin?
2. If a Hollywood übercelebrity sought you out as a consultant to ensure the maximum authenticity of his movie about Jesus, how would you counsel him?

Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8

Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 9/23/2002 7:50 AM (GMT -6)

1. Latin is a root for MANY modern languages. I would assume that the idea is that we will be able to comprehend parts of it while still feeling the "mystique" that the distance will create for all. No one speaks Latin so all whose langauge has a root there will share both some familiarity and some unfamiliarity. The story itself works well in this capacity because it has so infiltrated Western culture that at least the educated classes (and the religious) will know what is going on regardless of the language barrier. I think it is an intriguing project. Though it is esoteric to be sure. And in a sense will be elitist. People who speak multiple Western languages will be at an advantage. Many people from around the world do speak English, but I would suspect that those who speak it as a second langauge and whose first language is Eastern will have the most trouble. But I suppose this depends on their langauge skills (again, reinforcing the elitism problem).

just some random thoughts on that.....

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

BJS
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Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587

Posted 9/23/2002 8:36 AM (GMT -6)

I agree with Gibson, too, that the visual storytelling could make it worth seeing to the average viewer even if there were no subtitles. Most people know the basics of the story anyway. You wouldn't need much explanatory dialogue.

I'm interested.

Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

Electra
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611

Posted 9/23/2002 8:38 AM (GMT -6)

Hmmmmmm!

Modes, I hadn’t thought of the de-centering, yet inclusive (at least for most European and all North and South American nations) implications of telling the story in Latin. There may be some interesting theological implications for using a “dead” language to tell about Jesus’ Passion—a language that has served (for better or worse—it’s ambiguous!

) as the kernal of so many languages.

Your post also made me realize a connection between my two questions which I hadn’t intended: The reason I thought it was strange to tell the story in Latin was because we know Jesus didn’t speak Latin. But what is the relationship between telling a story with historical accuracy and telling the story with “maximum authenticity”? That is a much bigger question.

Electra

p.s. Parts of the story will be in Aramaic—another dead language (one that will sound more familiar to “Old World” nations), but one that Jesus actually did speak!

Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8

Edited by - Electra on 09/23/2002 1:45:30 PM

Electra
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611

Posted 9/23/2002 8:47 AM (GMT -6)

Modes & Brett, so what kind of advice would you have for Mel?

Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 9/23/2002 10:43 AM (GMT -6)

The Romans spoke Greek. Latin was the language of the peoples to their north. As those tribes were included in Roman society Latin became more universal. But, in general, the geographical layout between Latin and Greek was Latin to the North and Greek to the West. (For instance, Julius Caesar wrote plays in Greek.) And in Arabic, the Greek speaking peoples of the eastern Mediteranian are called Romans. (in the Arabic equivalent)

Electra
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611

Posted 9/24/2002 1:23 PM (GMT -6)

Ok. I posted these same questions in one of my on-line courses on rhetoric, and I’m eager to compare responses. Come on folks, show me your stuff! Electra

Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 9/24/2002 2:18 PM (GMT -6)

Are we really talking about this?

I'm all for communication. So a movie in a dead language is the same as that movie as a silent movie. Just show the movie with nothing said at all, Mel. Or better yet, hire Charismatic actors and have them speak in tongues while they're acting.

Forgive me. It's late here and I just finished one of those Japanese Karate movies where the dubbing doesn't sync with the movement of the mouths. Hey, that's it! Hire the movie out to a Japanese firm. Let 'em do it in Japanese, then dub (sp?) it in Latin but make sure the timing is off.

Ugh,
Tom

"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 9/24/2002 2:21 PM (GMT -6)

BUT THIS WILL BE GREAT FOR LATIN CLUBS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!!!

Modes of Thought
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 9/25/2002 11:56 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!!!

This is my new favorite quote! The SK class I am teaching tomorrow night features togas. Al, I think you must be prophetic!

Seriously. We are doing a Socratic dialogue in togas. (Plato's Alcibiades I & II. Sanderson Beck's paraphrase entitled "Know Yourself" check out this link if you are interested: www.san.beck.org/Alcibiades.html#1 Its a great read!). How else can you get people to take SK seriously?

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 9/25/2002 12:32 PM (GMT -6)

Saved to read after my wife goes to bed after a long faculty meeting.

Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 9/27/2002 4:07 PM (GMT -6)

E Plubius uranium . . . writ of habius corpus. (And you may quote me!)

Starkman

¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108

Posted 10/10/2002 5:29 PM (GMT -6)

Did the article say that Jesus would speak in Latin? or that the film will be produced in Latin in Aramaic?

You see, Latin may not be spoken by Jesus at all in the film. But it wouldn't be too odd for Latin to roll off the tongue of someone, somewhere in the movie. After all, the notice posted on Jesus' cross was written in three languages: two of them being the ones Gibson has chosen.

John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

Payaso

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

Edited by - payaso on 10/10/2002 10:31:04 PM

¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108

Posted 10/10/2002 5:42 PM (GMT -6)

As for the second question: If a Hollywood übercelebrity sought you out as a consultant to ensure the maximum authenticity of his movie about Jesus, how would you counsel him?, I would say, stick to the Greek. A little Hebrew is cool, a little Aramaic to soothe the pallet. But the record as it has come down to us has Jesus' words recorded in Greek. If the Greek text is a translation of something else, we are left to speculation in deciding what it was he actually said. (Note: I did not say we are left with absolute uncertainty about Jesus' original teachings if indeed they were in Aramaic or Hebrew.) Plus Jesus, along with the NT authors, virtually always used the LXX when citing Scripture.

We are not accustomed (here in the USA) to the idea of such a thoroughly multi-lingual culture, but even today, throughout most of Europe and South America, speaking more than one language is par for the course.

Payaso

P.S.: See these interesting comments from the B-Greek discussion board:
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-2/msg00315.html

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

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