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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 6/19/2002 3:44 AM (GMT -6) |   | My 17-year-old daughter would like to know what the difference is between (and the relationship between) Faith and Hope. She's interested in your ideas. Imagine that.
Toss 'em up!
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/19/2002 4:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Here's something from the www.ccel.org data base (also on CD). It is different from what popped into my head. It is interesting; and I've seen such a comparison before.
quote:
THE SECOND PART OF THE CONFERENCES OF JOHN CASSIAN.
CONFERENCE 11.
THE FIRST CONFERENCE OF ABBOT CHÆREMON.
ON PERFECTION.
CHAPTER VI.
Abbot Chæremon's statement that faults can be overcome in three ways.
THEN the blessed CHÆREMON: There are, said he, three things which enable men to control their faults; viz., either the fear of hell or of laws even now imposed; or the hope and desire of the kingdom of heaven; or a liking for goodness itself and the love of virtue. For then we read that the fear of evil loathes contamination: "The fear of the Lord hateth evil."[10] Hope also shuts out the assaults of all faults: for "all who hope in Him shall not fail."[11] Love also fears no destruction from sins, for "love never faileth;"[12] and again: "love covers a multitude of sins."[13] And therefore the blessed Apostle confines the whole sum of salvation in the attainment of those three virtues, saying "Now abideth faith, hope, love, these three."[14] For faith is what makes us shun the stains of sin from fear of future judgment and punishment; hope is what withdraws our mind from present things, and despises all bodily pleasures from its expectation of heavenly rewards; love is what inflames us with keenness of heart for the love of Christ and the fruit of spiritual goodness, and makes us hate with a perfect hatred whatever is opposed to these. And these three things although they all seem to aim at one and the same end (for they incite us to abstain from things unlawful) yet they differ from each other greatly in the degrees of their excellence. For the two former belong properly to those men who in their aim at goodness have not yet acquired the love of virtue, and the third belongs specially to God and to those who have received into themselves the image and likeness of God. For He alone does the things that are good, with no fear and no thanks or reward to stir Him up, but simply from the love of goodness. For, as Solomon says, "The Lord hath made all things for Himself."[15] For under cover of His own goodness He bestows all the fulness of good things on the worthy and the unworthy because He cannot be wearied by wrongs, nor be moved by passions at the sins of men, as He ever remains perfect goodness and unchangeable in His nature.
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BJS
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Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587
| Posted 6/19/2002 4:47 AM (GMT -6) | | In short, I always thought of hope as the foundation of faith. Without hope, faith would not be attempted or realized. That's why "faith is the substance of things hoped for." It is because we have hope in Christ that we place our faith in Him.
Brett
"Siste viator et memento mori." | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 6/19/2002 10:17 AM (GMT -6) | | I always steal from SK lately so here goes:
Aesthetically speaking, there are three ways to measure "greatness" in one's life:
One is great in proportion to what one loved
One is great in proportion to what one hoped for
One is great in proportion to what one wrestled with
I take this third one to be a potential description of faith. (FYI this is found in Fear and Trembling.) Here's what I mean: SK made this point: a great person might wrestle with nations, a greater person might wrestle with herself, the greatest will wrestle with God.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/19/2002 10:30 AM (GMT -6) | | Let me try something; I'll do it in really small letters. I want to list a vew different versions of Hebrews 11:1.
quote:
Hebrews 11:1
NIV -- "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. "
NASV -- "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."
ASV -- "Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen."
NKJV -- "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
That substance and evidence seems to say that faith is something that is produced ("substance") by something unseen that is hoped for.
(I think that the NKJV is more revealing than the NIV.)
Edited by - PotOnWheel on 06/19/2002 3:33:45 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 6/20/2002 5:45 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks all! Good to hear your voice Modes. Actually my daughter and I were heading in SK's direction instinctively. (Would SK approve of the "instinctively"? I don't know.). Anyhow, our feeling was basically that HOPE expressed our convictions with respect to ultimate goals (heaven, rewards, glory, whatever) while FAITH was for the journey NOW, expressing our trust in God in whatever life brings us while we travel toward the fulfillment of our hope. HOPE is where we're going. FAITH is how we get there.
If this is at least close, then I'm wondering what ongoing role HOPE will have when once we are glorified and home? What's to hope for? I have an idea but don't wanna spill my beans.
Blessings!
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 6/20/2002 6:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Aaah, 1 Cor. 13:13. And the greatest of these is love. Hope will be fulfilled (or disappointed), faith will be realized (or broken). The only one of the three that is inherently eternal (er, everlasting?  ) is love. This is why it can be said that love conquers all.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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Seymour
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 6/20/2002 8:43 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Aaah, 1 Cor. 13:13. And the greatest of these is love. Hope will be fulfilled (or disappointed), faith will be realized (or broken). The only one of the three that is inherently eternal (er, everlasting? ) is love. This is why it can be said that love conquers all.
Bingo bingo bingo, which is why faith and hope will only exist in hell and not in heaven.
Faith is a functional idol in fudagelcial folks. We trust our faith to save us, not Christ. What else does saving faith mean? Is it not by our faith that we are justified? We don't even need Jesus folks, our faith has replaced him. We must save faith from become an idol. Saving faith, keeping it safe, except faith.
Hope is evil. Hope is what perserves us in evil. When Pandora opened her box filled with every evil in the world the evil of all evils was saved for last: hope. Hope is what makes the heart sick according to Proverbs, but hope will one day be naught, allong with faith, and only love will outstripe them.
P.S. I think that the best word about faith from S.K. comes here:
"Everyone becme great in proportion to his expectancy. One became great by expecting the possible, another by expecting the eternal; but he who expected the impossible became the greatest of all."
That's faith, expecting the impossible.
Some folks dance cool, all angels and swaying hips, Sensual as all get out and in. Me, I'm a hick, and I dance like one, I just kinda jump around and grin.
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Empiress
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363
| Posted 6/20/2002 10:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom,
I'd just like to tell your daughter that she asked a very astute question! Oh, and tell her "hi" from us on the board...she could probably teach us a lot on this board.
As far as her question, I feel hope and faith are two sides of the same coin, particularly when aimed towards God. In the same way that we have faith in God, we have hope in God. One generates the other.
Faith = To trust
Hope = To desire with confident expectation
If we hope in someone, we implicity trust and have faith in them too.
In the Episcopal Church's Daily Office there are a few lines from our Morning Prayer that we say everyday that states:
For we put our trust in you Lord.
In you Lord is our hope.
And we shall never hope in vain.
That prayer always seemed to illumine the concept of faith for me.
Blessings,
Empiress
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