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wise seeker
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 11
| Posted 12/12/2002 7:25 AM (GMT -6) |   | Romans 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I have noted from the web that most Catholics and Pentecostals don't believe in OSAS or conditonal security. It's primarily Fundamental Evangelicals or Baptists!
I have also noted that the people who believe in OSAS reject the Baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, Apostle and prophets and the gifts of the Spirit as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12-14 but they insist they are bible believers and that the bible is the infaliable word of God?
I have also noted that these people preach universal forgiveness for anything and everything and love to use David as an example of a person who sinned and was forgiven. They ignore the fact that David sin was publically exposed and he suffered a terrible judgment of trouble and war for his hidden sin. They also don't discuss the fact that God did not forgive the sins of Korah and his friends, Eli and his sons, King Saul, other kings of Israel such as Ahab, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira, King Herod, and the seven real churches in the book of Revelations? BUT CONDITIONAL SECURITY IS TRUE?
To have people follow them the fundamentals had to offer some that the other fragments of Christianity had such as Catholics with pergatory and indulgences, Pentecostal with tongues and so they came up with Calvanism, Predestitnation or conditional security? Nothing new about that.
For the record, to be part of the vine you must be grafted in? To escape means you were captive? To fall away means you were there once? To have your name in the book of life it must be written there? To be vomited out you must be digested first? Well the bible tells us that faith is a gift. Hence like any other gift it's possible to lose salvation. But don't take my word on it check out what Jesus said:
15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
15:2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
15:3 "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
15:4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
RV 2:16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
RV 3:16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
JUDE 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
RV. RV 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
The following New Testament scriptures clearly say they were born again or grafted into the vine before they were removed or fell away:
John 15:15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
15:2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
15:3 "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
15:4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
6:8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
1 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
JUDE 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
RV 2:16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
RV 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
RV 3:16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Don't forget also that faith without works is dead? And pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
James 1:21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
1:24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
1:26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless.
1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
Besides 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work where else does is say that all scripture is God-breathed? The testimony of one person such as Apostle Paul is not a valid argument especially since the scriptures that Paul is referring to is the old testament - 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
The New Testament scriptures didn't exist when Paul was writing his epistle but you are using Paul's own words to make his epistles inspired? You might as well say that my words are also inspired therefore they are scriptures? It's no different argument!
Why doesn't the book of Acts that is the Acts of the Holy Spirit have an ending?
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