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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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Electra
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611
| Posted 9/15/2002 9:28 AM (GMT -6) |   | Are there sources of good other than God?
Electra
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 9/15/2002 9:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Deceptively simple answer...
YES!!!!!
Check this post on the potential sources of "goodness".
http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=445&ARCHIVE=&whichpage=1
Edited by - Mephi2K on 09/15/2002 2:36:19 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 9/15/2002 10:27 AM (GMT -6) | | Electra-
What do you mean by "source" and what do you mean by "goodness"?
Bill Clinton
PS If you mean, would goodness exist if God didn't exist? I'd say no.
If you mean, is goodness "good" because of beings other than God, that is, is God only part of the reason why the "good" is what it is? I'd say no. If you mean, are moral creatures other than God capable of being "good" independently of God? I'd say no. If you mean, are moral creatures other than God capable of doing "good"? I'd say yes. What's left?
Mephi, I got very little time to track down other threads and search for the answers, but I value your comments. If you could say, "Yes, there are sources of good other than God, here are some, 1, 2, 3, etc." that would really help me. But if you're as busy as I am you'd...you'd...eh...post the URL to where it was discussed! 
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 9/15/2002 10:30 AM (GMT -6) | | "Every GOOD and PERFECT gift comes from the Father...."?
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 9/16/2002 3:59 AM (GMT -6) | | God is the necessary but not sufficient condition for all goodness. No goodness happens without God, but given God, goodness doesn't HAVE to happen. It requires the yielding of free agents.
So, I would conclude, with Tom, that the ultimate source of all goodness is God. But there are secondary sources of goodness other than God.
Doc
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
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Electra
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611
| Posted 9/16/2002 4:42 AM (GMT -6) | | I feel honored that so many prestigious people have responded to this question: Sir Mephistopheles, Greg Boyd, and...Bill Clinton! 
Seriously, since we have been discussing compatibilism and evil so vigorously, I started wondering about compatibilism and good. Mephi, I’m really curious about why you would answer “yes”—so curious I have seriously considered reading that thread you linked us to. Anyway, Doc’s response sounds a lot like compatibilism to me. Can “secondary causes” still be considered “sources”? The answer to this question has implications for our other discussion, because it seems like we all want to say that free agents are the only source of evil actions, although God may be at work compatibilistically within such actions to bring about good.
Electra
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Matt. 10:8
Edited by - Electra on 09/16/2002 09:43:37 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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