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a_theist
"Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286

Posted 1/4/2003 6:13 PM (GMT -6)

I would recommend that book Trosie mentioned: The Matrix and Philosophy: Welcome to the Desert of the Real, by William Irwin. I started reading it today @ Borders, and it seemed to answer a lot of questions I have seen raised on this topic.

"The Creator's power (by which I mean the capacity to influence the world) is made manifest paradoxically in the vulnerable defenselessness of crucified man."
-John F. Haught

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 1/20/2003 6:42 AM (GMT -6)

My husband and I watched the Matrix for the first time this weekend. (We watched it twice and can’t wait to see it again!) Without Biblical understanding, I think the meaning of this movie would seem elusive to its viewer, but with such understandings, I find the movie fascinating and intriguing and incredibly thought provoking. I must admit it took some effort to see past the violence and just plain icky stuff (or should I say yiko, Greg?), but the profundities far outweigh the cringe factor!

Some impressions (there are several more) are as follows:

• The first thought that came to my mind with the mirror thing was 2 Cor.3:18 “And all of us with unveiled faces seeing the Glory of God as reflected in a mirror are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.” This fits nicely with what is probably my favorite line in the whole movie—Neo comes back from the weird womblike tank (I believe he was being reborn) and he asks Morphius “Why do my eyes hurt?” and Morphius says “Because you’ve never used them before.” WOW!! The glorious moment when we first see light and truth!!

• In the intense scene where the top agent is alone with Morphius, the agent takes out his earplug and gets face to face with Morphius. The agent says something like “I hate this place, I can’t stand the smell, the stench of humans.” And he rubs Morphius’s head and tries to force Morphius to inhale his own scent. This brought to mind 2 Cor. 2: 15 “We are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are perishing. To one we are the smell of death, to the other the fragrance of life.” The smell was a constant reminder to the agent that as long as there are those who can hear the voice of Morphius the agent’s mechanical kingdom and very life is at stake. To smell humans was to smell his own death.

• Morphius says the ship is a hover craft, this brought to mind 2 Chronicles “ the eyes of the Lord roam the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to Him.”
This also fits with “roaming” the internet for potentials. I found it very clever that visiting the Oracle created a “cookie” (when she gave him one)

• It was interesting to note that Mouse was killed when he indulged his flesh by lusting after the woman in the red dress. In doing this, he was caught off guard by the enemy—what an accurate depiction of spiritual warfare and human nature.

• Another drive it home depiction of spiritual warfare was when Neo came running through the city and grabbed the phone from a guy on the street. The phone was needed to contact headquarters (pray to the Father and Spirit) The guy Neo took the phone from started fussing “he took my phone! Blah, blah, blah.” This was an excellent visual of our ignorance and self absorption when there are spiritual battles going on all around us. Instead of using our “phones” to pray, we are often oblivious and concerned with meaningless things. If the guy had known he was helping “Jesus” he surely would have made the call himself! This is an inspiration for our prayer life!

• In the same vein, the first phone call from Morphius to Neo depicts the necessity of recognizing God’s voice and our need to trust God when we don’t know why He is asking us to do something. Morphius warns Neo of danger and gives him specific instruction of how to escape. Even in this, Morphius gives Neo free will, “There are only two ways out of this building, both are dangerous. The choice is yours.” Note that while on the ledge, the moment he dropped the phone (stopped listening to God) was when he made the wrong choice.

I could go on, and my hubby has some more gems which he will undoubtedly share.

I’d be fascinated to know which of the symbolisms were intentional, and which the Holy Spirit provided without the writer’s knowledge.

S.B.G.

Edited by - S.B.G. on 01/23/2003 07:55:58 AM

Edited by - S.B.G. on 01/23/2003 07:57:23 AM

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 1/20/2003 8:36 AM (GMT -6)

I’m back already! My husband and I have developed a theory about the Ship being called the Nebuchadnezzar.

*We know the earth is considered Babylon because the agent looks out the window at the city and says something like “Isn’t it beautiful, this world we created?” This is just what Nebuchadnezzar said about his kingdom the moment before God made him insane.

*Revelation chapter 18 talks about how Babylon has fallen. The description of the city is remarkably like the picture of the earth that Morphius showed to Neo on the TV “after we burned the sky.”

*When Neo was trying to get away from the evil agents, he took a leap from the fire escape and landed safely amidst the garbage. Depicted on the wall behind him was a female figure with a wine glass, ergo, Babylon's whore in whose territory he was fleeing for his life. “all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries”

*When Nebuchadnezzar “came to” and acknowledged God as king, he too, “came out of Babylon.”

*Verses 17-19 depict the sea captains as watching the destruction of Babylon safely from their ships. Much like those on the ship watched the events taking place on the monitor.

What do you say, do we have something here?

S.B.G.

fascinated
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 2

Posted 1/21/2003 7:10 AM (GMT -6)

Been a while since I've had a chance to talk with Greg or any of the TNT alumni about the Matrix. There is an interesting exploration of the MATRIX on a Jewish website. I'm not superkeen on sending folks off to another website, so I'll understand if Greg chooses to shut this topic down. It has some great photos and quotes from the movie, though. Anyway, the site is:

www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/default.asp

This is the topical overview:

quote:
1 - Overview
A brief look at the story line.

2 - Reality & Illusion
"You have to see it for yourself...
Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more..."

3 - Know What You Know
"How would you know the difference?"

4 - Ignorance is Bliss
"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged."

5 - Free Will & Destiny
"I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to walk through it.

6 - The Nebuchadnezzar
"Come with me, see for yourself."

7 - The One
"You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something."

Anyway, my favorite quotes from the website (not from the movie) are: "There are no coincidences, no random events, no casual happenings. Every event of your life is exactly what you need, part of your personalized program to complete your life's mission." "The only thing we control is our choice, and what we choose creates our world." "If you seize the moment, you will find that unique role waiting for you." I find them inspiring, even though I suspect they are logically flawed. What do you guys think?

Dr. Fascinated

(ps. I reposted this because I originally put it on the wrong thread. My friends told me of my goof up so here it is again. Please forgive the redundant redundancy that keeps repeating. . .)

Dr. Fascinated
Remember to forget that which should be forgotten, and remember to remember that which should be

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 1/21/2003 7:43 AM (GMT -6)

Fascinated,
Thoughts on site quotes: I'm not convinced every event is exactly what we need. Sometimes events are a result of someone elses evil. What we choose does create our world,but sometimes that choice is a reaction to somebody elses choice.

S.B.G.

LDR
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 1/22/2003 7:41 AM (GMT -6)

Matrix musings

Much of the action happens at HEART O’ the City Hotel: A seedy place with an endless maze of hallways and rooms, a place of occasional nonchalant observers (who seem not to get what’s going on) and heart-pounding drama as the conflict between good and evil rages. HOCH rightly represents the distilled essence of this world: man’s construct is in a state of disrepair and nightmarish horror . . . and it is NOT home, it’s just a hotel (temporary lodging, at best).
Why, when the hotel sign is shown, does the H of HEART never appear?

Cipher represents Lucifer/Judas (personalized discontent):
· Trusted “ship” hand
· Lustful admirer of Trinity
· Skeptic/tempter of Neo
· ‘Last Supper’ companion to Neo
· Plotting betrayer who coughs/sneezes in disclosing Neo’s whereabouts
The actual “kiss” from Cipher was when he called to get directives--so he could go back up and the agents would be tipped off.
· Renegade warrior in all-out battle against former shipmates
Note the scorn when Cipher says to the apparently comatose Trinity, “Don’t hate me!”
· Consignee to “the burning,” i.e., hell
Somebody help me here: Doesn’t cipher mean “nothing?”

Cipher gives the worst of all advice to Neo when he says, ‘Run from evil.’ The agents of evil always pursue and inflict harm when Neo and his associates flee—in fact, fear makes things worse (mere policemen morph into evil agents in response to Neo’s fear), but the agents of evil are overcome—after tremendous, sustained conflict—when Neo refuses to run, holds his ground, and eventually advances in pursuit of them. Neo explodes Agent One of the evil triumvirate when Neo rushes AO and enters him. Good overcomes evil, light triumphs over darkness, by entering it, not fleeing before it.

In the Oracle’s waiting room the only candidates for savior of the world are children—an indebtedness to Jesus’ statement that the kingdom of God belongs to those with child-like hearts. Lk 18.16
Neo’s fascination with the young Buddhist in the waiting room traces to the supposition shared by many that Buddha influenced Jesus. The movie suggests the contact was fleeting but suggestive of the familiar adage: Mind over matter.

Oracle teases Neo with her opening statement, “Not what you expected, is it?” Her appearance, her style, her quarters, are so unexpected and unassuming. Here Oracle discloses a truth around all truths: Truth presents itself without pomp and circumstance. Truth does not overwhelm us . . . and yet cannot be ignored (Neo cannot get her statements out of his mind).
Oracle had told Neo something about his being “right as rain”—in the final conflict with the evil agents sprinklers come on over them as Neo summons himself to deal their deathblow. Interesting little touch.

Trinity must accompany Neo in his effort to save Morpheus: Her love ultimately will resurrect him from the dead. See Rm 1.4 and elsewhere.

More later if anyone’s interested.

LDR

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 1/29/2003 6:44 AM (GMT -6)

DANG I LOVE YOU GUYS!

And you're making me fall MORE in love with this movie. I didn't notice half this stuff! And I've certainly seen the movie more than once!!!!

I've got to see it again.

WHC people -- expect a LOT of matrix allusions in sermons in the future!!!

Doc

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6

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