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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Can non-Christians genuinely love? | Forum Quick Jump
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 10/14/2002 4:52 PM (GMT -6) |   | Hey Icon,
You asked: "When Matthew says "taught them" who do you think this pronoun is referring to - the disciples or the "multitudes"?
Jesus was refering to . . . you! Me! The disciples, the multitudes, any and all who would not only listen to Him but would here his context, something different than the Pharisees or religious world leaders.
The context and backbone of Jesus' teaching doesn't change whether He's talking to sinners, believers, or His enemies. Everything He says and does is couched in the framework of the new verses the old, as I've noted in my above posts.
Oh, for the love of pete! I can't believe it's almost 10:00pm. I gotta get up at 5:00am. How do you people who stay up all night and live off 4 hours sleep do it? Man, I'd give anything to have a week of that. No, I take that back; I'd end up just working more!
For the evening,
Starkman
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/14/2002 5:46 PM (GMT -6) | | Icon, it appears at least from the words of your last post that you and Meph might be speaking two different languages!
quote:
Mephi
This is what I think is essential about the allegiance to God in Christ. One who understands what the Kingdom of God is and what the Church is CANNOT make the mistake of placing any aspect of Creation on the throne of one's heart.
Iconoclast
In my view for someone to make the mistake of placing some aspect of Creation on the throne of their heart simply means to live out of themselves as the center. The aspect of Creation enthroned is just the “we” that they identify with.
A “Christian” (someone who professes allegiance to God in Christ) may still be living out of themselves as center – they just enthrone something different than some aspect of Creation – perhaps “Christian” ethics or Lutheranism or Calvinism or Crusadism or what have you.
How do we know if someone is really living out of themselves as center or is really living out of Christ as center? I really think we can only know this by their “fruit”, by their actions. I think this is the meaning of Matt 25:31-46. And for that matter, I think we can only really know this about ourselves the very same way. We have to actually watch what we do. Our very deepest intentions are often hidden from our cognitive awareness. They are only revealed by our actions.
thanks, Iconoclast
(I had to try something different--and I won't know what it looks like until I hit "enter.")
Meph, I won't read your last page or two until tomorrow -- we're just back from Ohio visiting my wife's grandfather who is struggling for breath at 94. Loves the Lord! Wonderful old Mennonite man.
Icon, here's my point.
Where Meph says "One who understands what the Kingdom of God is and what the Church is CANNOT make the mistake of placing any aspect of Creation on the throne of one's heart." he says something moutain-sized. And I don't think you know that. What you reduced to "professes allegiance" is, in Meph's statement something much bigger. Here's how to approach this...
An early version of the Lord's Prayer said, "Thy Holy Spirit come, They will be done..."
That's key. Reading your posts over the last week or two I notice this missing. Its EVERYTHING! The "Kingdom of God" and the "Church" are synonomous. (Acts 2) Meph was not so much making (as I read it, at least) a statement about individual persons--as you examined afterwards....and how would either Meph or I disagree with what you said....but, rather, Meph was making a statement about what GOD does.
Now, I have my individual areas of concern raised by the way that you discuss this all. It almost (I hedge--it seems to me this might be true.) seems to me that you put the works ahead of the grace. The fruit ahead of the cause of the fruit.
Anyways, you are not grasping Meph's point. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/14/2002 5:50 PM (GMT -6) | | On the Church...
quote:
All Forums/Theological Q&A/ The Church
Posted - 09/21/2002 : 08:01:24 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------
"the Church ... is:
response, adoration, encounter, presence, glory,
and, ultimately, a mystical marriage between God
and his new creation ... the "doxa" of creation,
its response to God ... the climax, the personification,
the affirmation of the ultimate destiny of all creation:
that God may finally be all in all, may fill all things
with himself. ... the world [as] the "receptacle" of his glory... actualiz[ed] as "joy and peace" in the Holy Spirit ...
the taste—here and now—of the Kingdom which is to come...
this combination of beauty and humility, matter and spirit,
time and eternity ... is the real experience of the Church ... "
(from A. Schmemann)
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/15/2002 6:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Meph, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Church and Holiness, especially related to the thoughts of Dimitar Popmarinov Kirov. ("The Way of Holiness")
-Al
(I'm going to be too busy to post much. But I'll check back.) | | Back to Top | | |
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