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O marvellous wonder! The source of life is laid in a grave, and the tomb becomes a ladder to heaven. Be glad, O Gethsemane, the holy shrine of the Mother of God. Let us the faithful cry, with Gabriel as our captain: O Full of grace, hail! The Lord is with you, who grants the world through you his great mercy. (Three times).

O wonder of your mysteries, pure Lady! You were proclaimed the Throne of the Most High, and you have passed today from earth to heaven. Your glory is full of splendour, shining with grace in divine brightness. O Virgins, with the Mother of the King, be raised to the heights. O Full of grace, hail! The Lord is with you, who grants the world through you his great mercy. (Three times).

Dominions, Thrones, Rulers, Principalities and Powers, Cherubim and the fearful Seraphim glorify your Falling Asleep. Those born of earth rejoice, adorned by your divine glory. Kings fall down and sing with Angels and Archangels: O Full of grace, hail! The Lord is with you, who grants the world through you his great mercy. (Twice)

. . . . .

The Reading is from Genesis.
[28:10-17]

Jacob went out from the well of the oath and journeyed towards Harran. And he lighted on a place and slept there, for the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of the place and put it at his head; and he slept in that place, and he dreamed. And behold, a ladder set up on the earth, whose head reached to heaven; and the Angels of God were going up and going down upon it. But the Lord stood above it and said: ‘I am the God of Abraham, your father, and the God of Isaac, do not be afraid. The land on which you are sleeping I shall give to you and to your seed. And your seed will be like the sand of the earth, and it will be spread abroad to the Sea and Liva and North and East; and in you and in your seed all the tribes of the earth will be blessed. And behold, I am with you, guarding you on every road on which you may journey; and I shall bring you back again to this land, because I shall never abandon you until I have done all that I have said to you’. And Jacob arose from his sleep and said: ‘The Lord is in this place, but I did not know it’. And he was afraid, and said: ‘How fearful is this place! This is none other than the house of God, this is the gate of heaven’.
. . . . .

The Reading is from the Prophecy of Ezekiel.
[43:72, 44:1]

‘It shall be from the eighth day and upwards, the Priests shall make your holocausts upon the altar, and those for your salvation; and I shall accept you’, says the Lord. And he turned me back by the way of the outer gate of the Holy Place, which looks towards the east, and it was shut. And the Lord said to me: ‘This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no one shall pass through it, because the Lord, the God of Israel, will enter through it, and it shall be shut. Therefore this prince shall sit in it to eat bread. By the way of the Elam of the gate he shall enter, and by that way he shall go out’. And he brought me by the way of the gate towards the North, opposite the House; and I saw, and behold the whole house of the Lord was full of glory.
. . . . .

The Reading is from Proverbs.
[9:1-11]

Wisdom has built herself a house. She has slaughtered her beasts and mixed her wine in the mixing bowl, and prepared her table. She her sent out her servants, to invite with a loud proclamation upon the mixing bowl: ‘Whoever is foolish, let him turn to me’. And to those who lack wisdom she said: ‘Come, eat my bread, and drink the wine that I have mixed for you. Abandon folly, and you will live; and seek understanding that you may have life, and set aright your understanding with knowledge. One who corrects the wicked will gain dishonour for himself. One who rebukes the impious will get blame for himself; for to the impious rebukes are blows. Do not rebuke the wicked, lest they hate you. Rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be wiser; teach a just man and he will increase learning. The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord, and the counsel of Saints, understanding. While to know the law is the part of a good mind. For by this means you will live for a long time, and years will be added to your life’.
. . . . .

By John.

The all-blameless Bride and Mother of the Father’s Good Pleasure, who was foreordained by God as a dwelling for himself of the union without confusion, today delivers her immaculate soul to her Maker and God. The Bodiless Powers receive her in a manner fitting God, and she, who is indeed Mother of life, passes over to life, the lamp of the unapproachable Light, the salvation of the faithful, the hope of our souls.
. . . . .

By Germanos.

Come, all the ends of the earth, let us call blessed the Translation of the Mother of God. For she has placed her unblemished soul in the hands of her Son. Therefore the world has been restored to life by her holy Falling Asleep, as with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs it radiantly celebrates the feast with the Bodiless hosts and the Apostles.
. . . . .

By Theophanes

Come, gathering of the lovers of festivals; come, and let us form a choir; come, let us garland the Church with songs as the Ark of God goes to her rest. For today heaven unfolds its bosom as it receives the one who gave birth to him whom nothing can contain. The earth, as it gives back the source of life, is robed in blessing and majesty. Angels with Apostles form a choir as they gaze with fear while she who gave birth to the Prince of life is translated from life to life. Let us all worship her as we beg: ‘Sovereign Lady, do not forget your ties of kinship with those who celebrate with faith your all-holy Falling Asleep’.
. . . . .

Sing, you peoples, to the Mother of our God, sing! For today she places her soul, all filled with light, in the immaculate palms of the One who was incarnate from her without seed. And she implores him without ceasing that to the inhabited world there may be granted his peace and great mercy.

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Dormition of the Theotokos

The feast of the Dormition or Falling-asleep of the Theotokos is celebrated on the fifteenth of August, preceded by a two-week fast. This feast, which is also sometimes called the Assumption, commemorates the death, resurrection and glorification of Christ's mother. It proclaims that Mary has been "assumed" by God into the heavenly kingdom of Christ in the fullness of her spiritual and bodily existence.

As with the nativity of the Virgin and the feast of her entrance to the temple, there are no biblical or historical sources for this feast. The Tradition of the Church is that Mary died as all people die, not "voluntarily" as her Son, but by the necessity of her mortal human nature which is indivisibly bound up with the corruption of this world.

The Orthodox Church teaches that Mary is without personal sins. In the Gospel of the feast, however, in the liturgical services and in the Dormition icon, the Church proclaims as well that Mary truly needed to be saved by Christ as all human persons are saved from the trials, sufferings and death of this world; and that having truly died, she was raised up by her Son as the Mother of Life and participates already in the eternal life of paradise which is prepared and promised to all who "hear the word of God and keep it." (Luke 11:27-28)

In giving birth, you preserved your virginity. In failing asleep you did not forsake the world, 0 Theotokos. You were translated to life, 0 Mother of Life, and by your prayers, you deliver our souls from death. (Troparion)

Neither the tomb, nor death, could hold the Theotokos, who is constant in prayer and our firm hope in her intercessions. For being the Mother of Life, she was translated to life, by the One who dwelt in her virginal womb. (Kontakion)

The services of the feast repeat the main theme, that the Mother of Life has "passed over into the heavenly joy, into the divine gladness and unending delight" of the Kingdom of her Son. (Vesper verse) The Old Testament readings, as well as the gospel readings for the Vigil and the Divine Liturgy, are exactly the same as those for the feast of the Virgin's nativity and her entrance into the Temple. Thus, at the Vigil we again hear Mary say: "My soul magnifies the Lord and my Spirit rejoices in God my Saviour." (Luke 1:47) At the Divine Liturgy we hear the letter to the Philippians where St. Paul speaks of the self-emptying of Christ who condescends to human servitude and ignoble death in order to be "highly exalted" by God his Father. (Philippians 2:5-11) And once again we hear in the Gospel that Mary's blessedness belongs to all who "hear the word of God and keep it." (Luke 11:27-28)

Thus, the feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos is the celebration of the fact that all men are "highly exalted" in the blessedness of the victorious Christ, and that this high exaltation has already been accomplished in Mary the Theotokos. The feast of the Dormition is the sign, the guarantee, and the celebration that Mary's fate is, the destiny of all those of "low estate" whose souls magnify the Lord, whose spirits rejoice in God the Saviour, whose lives are totally dedicated to hearing and keeping the Word of God which is given to men in Mary's child, the Saviour and Redeemer of the world.

Finally it must be stressed that, in all of the feasts of the Virgin Mother of God in the Church, the Orthodox Christians celebrate facts of their own lives in Christ and the Holy Spirit. What happens to Mary happens to all who imitate her holy life of humility, obedience, and love. With her all people will be "blessed" to be "more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim" if they follow her example. All will have Christ born in them by the Holy Spirit. All will become temples of the living God. All will share in the eternal life of His Kingdom who live the life that Mary lived.

In this sense everything that is praised and glorified in Mary is a sign of what is offered to all persons in the life of the Church. It is for this reason that Mary, with the divine child Jesus within her, is call in the Orthodox Tradition the Image of the Church. For the assembly of the saved is those in whom Christ dwells.

It is the custom in some churches to bless flowers on the feast of the Dormition of the Holy Theotokos.

(Hopko)

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Originally posted by honorman

Well, now I know they loved each other. I've seen de pictures, so it must be true!!!

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Originally posted by fred

• the Church proclaims as well that Mary truly needed to be saved by Christ as all human persons are saved from the trials, sufferings and death of this world



• the eternal life of paradise which is prepared and promised to all who "hear the word of God and keep it." (Luke 11:27-28)



• At the Divine Liturgy we hear the letter to the Philippians where St. Paul speaks of the self-emptying of Christ who condescends to human servitude and ignoble death in order to be "highly exalted" by God his Father. (Philippians 2:5-11)



• And once again we hear in the Gospel that Mary's blessedness belongs to all who "hear the word of God and keep it." (Luke 11:27-28)



• all men are "highly exalted" in the blessedness of the victorious Christ...



• ...this high exaltation has already been accomplished in Mary the Theotokos.



• The feast of the Dormition is the sign, the guarantee, and the celebration that Mary's fate is, the destiny of all those of "low estate" whose souls magnify the Lord, whose spirits rejoice in God the Saviour, whose lives are totally dedicated to hearing and keeping the Word of God which is given to men in Mary's child, the Saviour and Redeemer of the world.



• Christians celebrate facts of their own lives in Christ and the Holy Spirit.



• What happens to Mary happens to all who imitate her holy life of humility, obedience, and love.



• With her all people will be "blessed" to be "more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim" if they follow her example



• All will have Christ born in them by the Holy Spirit. All will become temples of the living God.



• All will share in the eternal life of His Kingdom who live the life that Mary lived.



• In this sense everything that is praised and glorified in Mary is a sign of what is offered to all persons in the life of the Church.



• Mary, with the divine child Jesus within her, is called in the Orthodox Tradition the Image of the Church.



• ...the assembly of the saved is those in whom Christ dwells.

(Hopko)

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Originally posted by fred

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I think that however the church came to think that Mary should be venerated was a mistake. Just like a lot of other mistakes are made by lots of churches whether Catholic or Protestant.

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I like the tone of recognizing that we all make mistakes.

But before you say that "venerating Mary" is a mistake, I think that you really have to, first, know even something of what you are talking about.

Don't you think?

A place to start is the cycle of hymns from evening Vespers of Matins services. For eight weeks the story developes, and then begins again. It is written to be sung straight through, each "tone" week after week. But it is also interesting to put all the hymns side by side and watch the development of each part of the hymns. For instance, the same verse every time addresses the contribution of the Cross (also venerated in hymn) to our salvation... There is also a portion, at the end, addressing the Theotokos. And why? Because SHE is the "Door." Without the humanity that Christ received from her, and on the other end of the string there is her "yes" that synergetically --God working with mankind-- makes our salvation possible too.

Imagine that, Tigress. The blood spilt on Calvary had HER mitochondria! "Oh what blood, was shed for me."

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Originally posted by ReasonableDoubt

Pardon me, but what kind of nonsense is this! That sin is passed along through the man but not the woman? So if we succeed in cloning humans - and thus basically do away with the need for sperm - any resulting human is not going to have original sin then, i guess, huh?
And original sin is not something "transmitted" by biological reproduction. It is an ontological state that humanity has by virtue of being human. It doesn't matter how the human comes about. Christ was a human but did not have sin, but that's b/c he was God. Not because Mary wasn't able to transmit her sin without the help of male sperm.

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I don't care what way anyone describes it, venerating objects like the Bible, the Cross or anyone other than Christ is idolatry. God never intended for His children to do that.

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Originally posted by Al2Si2H4O9

Tigress said: Yes, but Jesus was clearly made up of Mary's biology. So, how is it that He could have no sin, (even being God)?

She follows in a long, long line of theologians, Latin Catholic and Protestant, up to and past Luther and Calvin, but going back to where the idea entered the Church, through one convert from paganism: Augustine, Bishop of Hippo. His idea was that GUILT is "imputed" to us. Augustine and Paul have different ideas. But Augustine read Paul, in Latin--not Greek, and inserted an idea of an offended God who needed his feelings addressed by sacrifice. That was a pagan idea; but it is a commonly held one. And us Protestants get it from the Roman Catholic Church.

The Latin concept called "immaculate conception" is an invention created to try and solve the tension introduced into theology by Augustine. Tigress picks up on it. The immaculate conception idea says that somehow God insolated Christ from this "genetic" guilt (picking up on Tigress' sense of analogy here.) by miracle of having one human born without that guilt.

But a historian, John Meyendorff, understood the various forms theology takes. He was on some of the Ecumenical boards of the WCC, working with Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. His take on the immaculate conception, though, is that it is a "cure without a disease." There is no need to issolate humanity from Christ or Christ from humanity. IN FACT, the opposite is true.

It is absolutely indispensible for our salvation that our "fallen" humanity -- our broken humanity, weakened by sin into mortality ("the curse of sin is death") The Church found a simple way to say this: "That which is not assumed is not healed." (And many said it.) Christ took our humanity to the cross, and with Christ we actually died. And with his resurrection we are actually justified. (Romans) Were it a humanity that was not "like us in every respect, except sin" then we would be lost.


But Tigress said a few other things too. She said: "He was fully human and Mary was full of the sin of her ancestors. She herself was a sinner, but for some reason Jesus didn't contain that sin."

Mary was every bit as in need of salvation as anyone else. Every post above by "Fred" says as much. The piety of the Eastern Orthodox says (not based on scripture or history, but based only on faith in God's power--that God is powerful enough by his Spirit to sanctify at least one person...and that if so, Mary is the best candidate!) that Mary lived her life so closely before God's face that she did not make any personal sins. Yet it is their dogmatic faith that even a perfectly lived life STILL is never enough for salvation. ("We are saved by grace through faith; not as a result of works, lest anyone should boast." -Paul) Mary needed what only her son's suffering and death on the cross, and resurrection, and ascension could provide her!

Tigress saying, "He was also God, but that doesn't just negate the human side of Him." is very important. But when Christ "took hold of" our humanity to his person he restored it. The corruption of sin did not change his divinity--Him who IS "Life."

So, while it is certainly creative for Tigress to say, "The only thing that makes sense is that the sin is imputed through men - and women only carry the child with the original sin." that ALSO is, in John Meyendorff's words: "a cure in pursuit of a disease." The consequences of sin are inherited. But the guilt can ONLY be our own. Our inherited consequences come from BOTH our parents. Christ Jesus' only through his mother. But it was that humanity that was enough. His life lain down and taken up again: By his blood we are made whole.

Tigress also said: "That fact alone proves she wasn't free of sin when she was used as a vessel through which Jesus was incarnated." And we can now see that this is vital. The "sin" that Mary had in her was the consequences of sin. (I'm not speaking of "guilt" here. We can't argue with pious tradition; one is personally free to ignore it; but there is nothing un-wholesome with it.) That consequence-ridden-humanity (Mary certainly did die!), once deified (risen and ascended), is what the Holy Spirit ministers to us to give us evernal life.


Tigress said something else: "The error of believing that sex is always sinful, even in marriage, contributed to the errant belief that Mary could never have been blessed with that kind of holy union with her husband who rightfully should have been able to do that with her. God would never deprive Mary and Joseph of such a wonderful gift!"

More Augustine. Did you know that?

Sex as passing on guiltiness.... That's not right. Sex is part of the unity of marriage. It is a good thing. And it is, in fact, a "monastic" thing: mystically imaging the union of God and man in the Church -- Paul says.

But whether or not Mary had marrital union with Joseph is a completely unrelated matter. Tigress worries that it would be deprivation for Joseph to respect Mary's complete devotion. Joseph holds a very revered place in the Church. He committed himself to much, and endured lots of public scorn. (Jesus refered to as Mary's son shows the shame of his not being Joseph's 'legitimate' son.) But Mary chose the "one thing needful."

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I don't care what way anyone describes it, venerating objects like the Bible, the Cross or anyone other than Christ is idolatry. God never intended for His children to do that.

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You can chose for yourself, Tigress. But don't presume to judge my nieces. They love JESUS!!!!!

And when my friend's brother (George Beverly Shea) used to sing "The Old Rugged Cross" at Billy Graham crusades, that was NOT ID0LATRY!!! Nor is saying "Thanks be to God" after the Word is read in church.

Something may not be familiar to you personally, Tigress. But it is not your business to criticize others.

Just make what you do work for you.

Al

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Originally posted by Tigress

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Originally posted by Al2Si2H4O9

Tigress said: I don't care what way anyone describes it, venerating objects like the Bible, the Cross or anyone other than Christ is idolatry. God never intended for His children to do that.

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You can chose for yourself, Tigress. But don't presume to judge my nieces. They love JESUS!!!!!

And when my friend's brother (George Beverly Shea) used to sing "The Old Rugged Cross" at Billy Graham crusades, that was NOT ID0LATRY!!! Nor is saying "Thanks be to God" after the Word is read in church.

Something may not be familiar to you personally, Tigress. But it is not your business to criticize others.

Just make what you do work for you.

Al

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Tigress: I'm not judging anybody. I'm speaking the truth in love. No matter what the intentions are, the means to the end of praising Jesus have been skewed.

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The Old Rugged Cross

On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,
The emblem of suffering and shame;
And I love that old cross where the dearest and best
For a world of lost sinners was slain.

Refrain

So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,
Till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
And exchange it some day for a crown.

O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,
Has a wondrous attraction for me;
For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above
To bear it to dark Calvary.

Refrain

In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
A wondrous beauty I see,
For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
To pardon and sanctify me.

Refrain

To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;
Its shame and reproach gladly bear;
Then He'll call me some day to my home far away,
Where His glory forever I'll share.

Refrain

"The Old Rugged Cross," one of the world's best loved hymns, was composed in Albion, Michigan in 1912 by the Reverend George Bennard (1873-1958). The son of an Ohio coal miner, Bennard was a lifelong servant of God, chiefly in the Methodist ministry. He wrote the words and music of over three hundred other hymns. None achieved the fame of "The Old Rugged Cross," the moving summation of his faith.

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"May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world" (Galatians 6:14).

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O Virgin Mother of God, Hail, Mary, full of grace, Blessed are you among women and Blessed is the Fruit of your womb, for you have given birth to the Saviour of our souls.

It is truly meet to call you blessed Who gave birth to God, Ever-blessed and most pure and the Mother of Our god; Greater in honour than the Cherubim And beyond compare More glorious then the Seraphim, Without corruption You gave birth to God the word, Truly the Mother of God, We magnify you!

You are most blessed O virgin Mother of God, For through Him Who was incarnate of you Hades is despoiled, Adam is recalled, The curse is destroyed, Eve is set free, Death is slain And we are brought to life, And so we shout aloud our hymn of praise: Blessed is Christ Our God, Glory to You Who deigned to accomplish this!

And the angel said to her, Fear not Mary;
for thou has found favour with God. And behold
thou shallt conceive in thy womb and bring forth a son,
and shalt call his name Jesus.
He shall be great,
and shall be called the Son of the Most High:
and the Lord God shall give him
the throne of his father David:
and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there shall be no end.