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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Satan and the Problem of Evil Chapter I Discussion | Forum Quick Jump
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OrthodoxBerean
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 2/14/2002 9:22 AM (GMT -6) |   | Ok here it is. This is great.
I have always assumed that the post apostolic church was Calvinist (that is when I was a Calvinist of course).
Gregory Boyd points out, "the point is that the law of God's providence is a moral law not a deterministic law". This is a great point. This is totally different than the Calvinist perspective on providence.
They always believed providence to be linked to micromanagement. If that was the case then the war naturally becomes the result of God creating the "war" that is occurring in this world.
I think that this is such an important chapter for those that are under a deterministic mindset to see that this was not the natural thought of the post apostolic fathers.
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trosie
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 2/15/2002 12:26 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I have always assumed that the post apostolic church was Calvinist (that is when I was a Calvinist of course).
What I appreciated reading in this chapter is how neither the bible nor the early church assumed that there was a divine purpose behind evil. It is interesting that the view that God has a divine purpose for every evil act emerged with Augustine's blueprint theodicy. It's amazing how much of an impact the blueprint worldview has played in our culture.
It makes sense that Satan and demons were not created by God to be evil, they made themselves that way by their own volition. Along with freewill comes the opportunity for agents and people to choose evil. The warfare is what God is fighting against not designing. The will of God is NOT the only will that affects things and God must fight it with -- thus the warfare worldview.
I agree that this is a good chapter for those who are under a deterministic mindset.
trosie
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 2/17/2002 6:49 PM (GMT -6) | | Origen goes so far as to say that if we ascribe EVERYTHING to God's providence, we thereby deny God's providence, for God's providence is necessarily GOOD. (If someone hadn't stolen my lap-top this weekend I'd give you a few quotes!). On the whole, the early fathers were adamant against any form of determinism. They emphasize the free will of humans and angels ADAMANTLY!
How very different from what we find after Augustine.
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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trosie
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 2/17/2002 7:38 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
(If someone hadn't stolen my lap-top this weekend I'd give you a few quotes!).
BUMMER! How sad that someone stole your laptop.  Here's an example of Spiritual warfare, eh?
I'm praying for you, Doc!
trosie
Edited by - trosie on 02/18/2002 12:48:29 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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OrthodoxBerean
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 2/19/2002 3:45 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Origen goes so far as to say that if we ascribe EVERYTHING to God's providence, we thereby deny God's providence, for God's providence is necessarily GOOD. (If someone hadn't stolen my lap-top this weekend I'd give you a few quotes!). On the whole, the early fathers were adamant against any form of determinism. They emphasize the free will of humans and angels ADAMANTLY!
How very different from what we find after Augustine.
Foolish mortals enter into many contentions with God, as though they could bring Him into court to defend Himself against their accusations. If such a thought ever enters the minds of pious men, they will be sufficiently enabled to break its force by one consideration: how exceedingly presumptuous it is to even inquire into the causes of the Divine will, which is, in fact, and is justly entitled to be, the cause of everything that exists. For if God's will had any cause, then there would have to be something antecedent to which that will were linked, which it is impious to suppose. For the will of God is the highest rule of justice, so that what He wills must be considered just for the very reason that He wills it. When it is inquired, therefore, why the Lord did this or that, the answer must be "Because He willed it." But if you go further and ask why He so willed, you are in search of something greater and higher than the will of God, which can never be found. [Calvin, Institutes o f the Christian Religion, Book III, my italics]
According to Calvin we shouldn't even inquire about such things.
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Jewgrass
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Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 2/19/2002 4:09 AM (GMT -6) | | Anyone know of a good concise book with a good selection of readings from the early church fathers?
--Jewgrass
"Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much." --1 Corinthians 8:2 (New Living Translation) | | Back to Top | | |
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Bob Hill
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 98
| Posted 3/19/2002 8:56 PM (GMT -6) | | If a 230 ft water line had not broken in the home I rent to my oldest grandson, his wife, and his 3 children, I could have spent time on line. I do believe that Satan is at work.
Bob Hill
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