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John Earp
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 8/23/2003 7:25 PM (GMT -6) |   | In the first place, it seems quite redundant, as in "really free free will." I realize it is in distinction to compatibilistic free will that this term is used, but it has always seemed to overstate the case.
Second, it requires OVTers and Arminians to go to great lengths to explain themselves, that they do not believe in absolute free will in all cases, but in fact do believe that as humans our free will is to a great extent quite limited. Related to this it seems that the charge of Pelagianism is difficult to avoid if we use the term consistently.
Third, it seems to me that all of us OVTers must agree with Scripture that humans are by definition bound in sin (and definitely NOT free) until we are delivered from that bondage by Christ (a la Romans 6). Therefore it does not seem accurate or wise to use the term, "libertarian" with regard to free will.
Is there a better, less problematic, term that could be used?
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
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Paul5388
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 295
| Posted 8/24/2003 9:24 AM (GMT -6) | | John,
The Libertarian Party (political) is quite extreme in some of their views, like legalizing wacky tobacy (marijuana). An association with the political party would be unjustified, but still a possibility and a possibility that may be negative in nature. I wouldn't want to be associated with anything libertarian, because of guilt by association. It's just a thought. | | Back to Top | | |
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ThePlaidRanger
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Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 8/24/2003 11:05 AM (GMT -6) | | | Paul, legalizing marijuana isn't any more extreme than legalizing alcohol. | | Back to Top | | |
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Paul5388
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 295
| Posted 8/24/2003 4:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Ranger,
Except that alcohol has been legal for a long time, even though it probably shouldn't be. | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 8/25/2003 9:10 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Paul5388
John,
The Libertarian Party (political) is quite extreme in some of their views, like legalizing wacky tobacy (marijuana). An association with the political party would be unjustified, but still a possibility and a possibility that may be negative in nature. I wouldn't want to be associated with anything libertarian, because of guilt by association. It's just a thought.
Paul,
I don't see how this makes a difference to the question I raised. The Libertarian party takes its name from the idea of liberty, however they may interpret that. Likewise, the Democrat party derives its name from the idea of democracy, as the Republican party derives its name from the idea of the classic republican form of gov't.
But this does not require us to consign negative connotations to the use of the term "liberty" with regard to theology. The Bible itself uses the words, "liberty" and "freedom," and so just because someone may give those words a particular meaning that is different from the scriptural one does not mean that we must abandon the original terminology.
"Libertarian" free will is a term used to distinguish what Arminians and OVTers mean by free will from what Calvinists mean by free will; to wit, "compatibilistic free will." In other words, in the deterministic/Calvinistic mindset, God determines the free actions of moral agents. As this is inherently illogical and flatly contradictory, Arminians and OVTers have felt the need to use the term, "libertarian" to describe what they mean by free will. My concern is that "libertarian" is perhaps too strong of a term, and can easily be misunderstood to mean that human free will is unlimited.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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