quote:

---

Originally posted by Empiress

Our Epistle lectionary text today was from Ephesians:

Eph 5:22-23: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigress
What does a wife submitting to her husband actually look like in practice, though?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laika

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigress
What does a wife submitting to her husband actually look like in practice, though?

---

I'll never know.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul5388

Laika,

I could tell my wife to write about what being a submissive wife entails, but I will ask her instead. Even if I told her to write, recognizing who I believe to be an extraordinarily submissive wife, would that act be abusive or would it violate any scriptural principle?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laika

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul5388

Laika,

I could tell my wife to write about what being a submissive wife entails, but I will ask her instead. Even if I told her to write, recognizing who I believe to be an extraordinarily submissive wife, would that act be abusive or would it violate any scriptural principle?

---

Paul5388, that was a joke. Here's another one:

I'd tell Tigress what being a submissive wife means but I can't get ahold of her to ask her permission.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigress
Man, you must be whipped!
(That jumprope was the closest thing I could find to a whip on the emoticons.)

---

quote:

---

TO OBEY OR NOT OBEY?
(IS IT EVEN A QUESTION?)

God demands obedience. Jesus Christ obeyed God (and HE WAS GOD!--obeyed even to dying!) He even obeyed His parents. Today we say we don't have to do anything anyone says, because we (as non-Christians) are our own gods or we (as Christians) have LIBERTY! But for the Christian obedience is a must! It is so ludicrous that we don't have to do what even God HIMSELF had to do! To receive the blessings and PROTECTION of God we must obey! In the scriptures He laid down the rules for obedience. Who to obey, why to obey and when to obey. Let's take a look at what HE says:

Obey GOD:
"And Samuel said, Hath the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, [and] to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry..." (1 Samuel 15:22-23a)
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

One of the ways we obey God is by obeying the ones He told us to obey. Not because they are right, or because we respect them, but because when we obey, we are obeying God.

Obey our PARENTS (as children):
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right." (Ephesians 6:1)

In John Charles Ryle's book "Duties of Parents", written in 1888, he writes on the many facets of Proverbs 22:6: "train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it". The following section of his book is very noteworthy on the subject of obedience. He states: "This is an object which it is worth any labour to attain. No habit, I suspect, has such an influence over our lives as this. Parents, determine to make your children obey you, though it may cost you much trouble, and cost them many tears. Let there be no questioning, and reasoning, and disputing, and delaying, and answering again. When you give them a command, let them see plainly that you will have it done.

"Obedience is the only reality. It is faith visible, faith acting, and faith incarnate. It is the test of real discipleship among the Lord's people. "Ye are My friends if ye do whatsoever I command you" (John xv. 14). It ought to be the mark of well-trained children, that they do whatsoever their parents command them. Where, indeed, is the honour which the fifth commandment enjoins, if fathers and mothers are not obeyed cheerfully, willingly, and at once?

"Early obedience has all Scripture on its side. It is in Abraham's praise, not merely he will TRAIN his family, but 'he will COMMAND his children, and his household after him' (Gen. xviii.19). It is said of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, that when 'He was young He was SUBJECT to Mary and Joseph' (Luke ii 51). Observe how implicitly Joseph obeyed the order of his father Jacob (Gen. xxxvii.13). See how Isaiah speaks of it as an evil thing, when 'the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient' (Isaiah iii. 5). Mark how the Apostle Paul names disobedience to parents as one of the bad signs of the latter days (2 Tim iii. 2). Mark how he singles out this GRACE of requiring obedience as one that should adorn a Christian minister: 'a bishop must be one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity.' And again, 'Let the deacons rule their children and their own houses well' (1 Tim. iii 4,12). And again, an elder must be one 'having faithful children, children not accused of riot, or unruly.' (Tit. i. 6)

"Parents, do you wish to see your children happy? Take care, then, that you train them to obey when they are spoken to,--to do as they are bid. Believe me, we are not made for entire independence,--we are not fit for it. Even Christ's freemen have a yoke to wear,--they 'serve the Lord Christ' (Col. iii 24). Children cannot learn too soon that this is a world in which we are not all intended to rule, and that we are never in our right place until we know how to obey our betters. TEACH THEM TO OBEY WHILE YOUNG, OR ELSE THEY WILL BE FRETTING AGAINST GOD ALL THEIR LIVES LONG, AND WEAR THEMSELVES OUT WITH THE VAIN IDEA OF BEING INDEPENDENT OF HIS CONTROL.

"Reader, this hint is only too much needed. You will see many in this day who allow their children to choose and think for themselves long before they are able, and even make excuses for their disobedience, as if it were a thing not to be blamed. To my eyes, a parent always yielding, and a child always having its own way, are a most painful sight;--painful, because I see God's appointed order of things inverted and turned upside down;--painful, because I feel sure the consequence to that child's character in the end will be self-will, pride, and self-conceit. You must not wonder that men refuse to obey their Father which is in heaven, if you allow them, when children, to disobey their father who is upon earth.

"Parents, if you love your children, let obedience be a motto and a watchword continually before their eyes."

Obey our HUSBANDS (as wives):
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

In Bob Mumford's book "Living Happily Ever After", he brings out a very encouraging point for those who are afraid to follow and obey their husbands. "The wife does not submit to her husband because she thinks he is strong and trustworthy in his own right, but because she believes that GOD will lead the family through her husband. She is fitting in with GOD'S order for marriage. Remember Sarah was not trusting Abraham to get her out of that harem--SHE WAS TRUSTING GOD!" God does not let us down. When HE tells us to do something HE has no loop holes. We just do it and let HIM do the rest.

Obey our GOVERNMENT (as citizens living in a country):
"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;" (1 Peter 2:13)

"1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing." (Romans 13:1-6)

It does not say if they are a Godly government, or fair government, or if we agree. Many governments are put over a country for the purpose of punishment. It is still God in control. The only out we have is if they ask us to disobey God.


Obey our ELDERS OF THE CHURCH (as part of a church body):
"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you." (Hebrews 13:17)

This is missing in our churches today and everyone does as he pleases. As we do so, we have many who are disgracing the name of the Lord. Many lost people are unwilling to listen to the Gospel because the Christians are no different than they are. The elders were given the responsibility of ruling over us and requiring obedience to God's Word to make a pure and holy bride for the Lord. As they teach and demand of us obedience to what the Word says, they also give us a better and more rewarding life. For where God's Word and principles are observed there is life more abundant. When we disobey, even in a few areas, we soon disobey in more and more areas until we are no different than the world around us.

Obey our MASTERS (as servants or employees):
"Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;" (Ephesians 6:5)
What business can operate without obedience to the hours, rules, instructions, directions? The successful business is the business where the employees are all obeying. This saves money also, in the lack of necessity of arbitrators and UNIONS. The employee needs to realize that he has sold HIS TIME to this business for the employer to use as he wants to use it. If he cannot do this he needs to leave, not cause dissension and disruption in the business. His is merely to obey, just as the child's place is to obey and keep the home running smoothly.


God never said in His Word to obey parents, husbands, governments, elders, businesses when they are fair, right, lovely, just, or if we agree. He said OBEY and let Him take care of the rest. If you take a look at the military you can have a good idea of why obedience is required. If the soldiers do not obey the commands of the leaders, whole troops or the whole country could be lost. It is the same thing in our world: home, country, jobs. If people do not have to obey and can do what THEY feel is right, homes break up, children are lost to rebellion, children lead other children into rebellion, and businesses operate in chaos. When we are not obeying God our whole Christian lives fall apart! God gave a book of commands not to put a burden on us and mistreat us, but to give us the guidance to live by so we can survive and have a good life with God's richest blessings poured out on us. Everything must operate in order or there is chaos. Our bodies must work in order. If some part of the body rebels against the other and doesn't obey the body's commands then we get sick, or hurt, or die. If the laws of nature were broken (nature disobeying God) we could have a hard freeze in July and ruin everything. If one of the planets decided to disobey and move over just an inch the whole universe would explode. Is it any wonder that homes are exploding anymore? No one is obeying and no one is following the rules.

God offers us only one exception to mandatory obedience: "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) If we are called on to disobey God's commands by what we are asked to do, then we must obey God rather than those over us. This is the ONLY reason He has given us for DISOBEDIENCE.



"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)

---

quote:

---

God offers us only one exception to mandatory obedience: "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) If we are called on to disobey God's commands by what we are asked to do, then we must obey God rather than those over us. This is the ONLY reason He has given us for DISOBEDIENCE.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul5388

Tigress,

I think it was covered in the last paragraph

quote:

---

God offers us only one exception to mandatory obedience: "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) If we are called on to disobey God's commands by what we are asked to do, then we must obey God rather than those over us. This is the ONLY reason He has given us for DISOBEDIENCE.

---

---